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Old 10-08-2013, 03:32 PM   #16
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3-ways and neutrals


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Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
I personally though the neutral requirement was/is a good idea. The exemptions pretty much make the neutral optional if it is possible to add the neutral later. But how many "Joe Six-packs" are going to do it correctly and add the neutral Read some of the posts/questions we get on this forum. My buddy says: "Hook it up to the ground wire, they connect to the same place anyways"
I understand your side of things, but why should we have to be worrying about someone else wanting to modify things in the future? It's like saying that we should leave a 20 foot loop of cable between each box just in case someone wants to add an outlet, a switch and a dishwasher in between, without doing the dirty work. That shouldn't be our responsibility. That should be theirs.

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Old 10-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #17
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3-ways and neutrals


We aren't talking about digging post holes for future fences or providing wire for adding outlets.
The switch box is there. How likely is it that someone will want to change the switch? Someone may want a timer, a motion sensor, etc.
They have a power draw and need a neutral. You are providing for a reasonable future need.

It is similar to putting a fan rated box and pulling a 3wire when adding an overhead light in a bedroom. Not needed now, but it will sure be great if someone wants a fan in there later.

The labor doesn't change, just a bit of material cost.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:10 PM   #18
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3-ways and neutrals


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It is similar to putting a fan rated box and pulling a 3wire when adding an overhead light in a bedroom. Not needed now, but it will sure be great if someone wants a fan in there later.
So is a fan-rated box required by code if you're just installing an overhead light? What makes this different? If someone wants to change devices, it should be on them to deal with the consequences. Why does future design need to be codified?
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:49 PM   #19
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3-ways and neutrals


Apparently too many tried to use the existing non-fan rated box or installed a switch that needed a neutral and used the grounding conductor. The code is trying to prevent future issues.
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Old 10-08-2013, 05:51 PM   #20
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3-ways and neutrals


No, its not code in my area, just smart.
I see a difference between a reasonably foreseeable change to the existing and wild guesses at what might happen.
I guess you don't.
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Old 10-08-2013, 06:27 PM   #21
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3-ways and neutrals


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Originally Posted by Tonglebeak

So is a fan-rated box required by code if you're just installing an overhead light? What makes this different? If someone wants to change devices, it should be on them to deal with the consequences. Why does future design need to be codified?
In my state, a fan rated box needs to be installed wherever a fan can legally be installed.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #22
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No, its not code in my area, just smart.
I see a difference between a reasonably foreseeable change to the existing and wild guesses at what might happen.
I guess you don't.
Cool, you go out of your way to do things to might possibly make things easier for other people in the future, and spend more money as a result. Nothing wrong with that, but again, why should that be code, when

90.1(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.

exists, and 90.1(c) says that the code is not intended to be used as a design specification?

I'm out. Again my beef lies outside of the site. Time for a break.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:29 PM   #23
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3-ways and neutrals


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Cool, you go out of your way to do things to might possibly make things easier for other people in the future, and spend more money as a result. Nothing wrong with that, but again, why should that be code, when

90.1(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.

exists, and 90.1(c) says that the code is not intended to be used as a design specification?

I'm out. Again my beef lies outside of the site. Time for a break.
You are arguing points many electricians have argued for years.

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