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Old 01-03-2010, 04:52 PM   #46
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3 way Switch Install


I was hoping you guys would help me with figuring out where the hot and neutrals go but here is a shot at it.

Firstly though, S3 is a 3 position (on-none-on) single pole double throw rocker switch I think like the top one here: http://insolroll.com/products/motor-...volt-ac-motors. Surely it's not near $60, details have been requested.


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Old 01-03-2010, 05:18 PM   #47
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3 way Switch Install


Please don't burn your house down.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:19 PM   #48
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This is s foolish scheme and I will not comment it any more.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:25 PM   #49
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Oh come on, I'm only looking for help man! If it's a no go, then a NO GO IT IS. Is it wrong for me to ask or what?
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:30 PM   #50
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This is s foolish scheme and I will not comment it any more.
I agree with joed. It is a NO GO!
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:34 PM   #51
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Come on my fellow DIYfers, anyone else?

A 3 position rocker:

ON - circuit A closed leaving the other ON open but hot
NONE - not wired at all (always open)
ON - circuit B closed leaving the other ON open but hot

The rocker would have to travel to the NONE position before closing any CKT so no matter how fast you are at rocking it, it will always pass an OPEN before closing.

I could try it on the floor and if all is well, I'll be sure to clearly label the switch to indicate that it is HOT from TWO CIRCUITS.

I realize the switch is the critical piece of the picture, it has to be what I'm thinking.

EDIT: am I missing something here? I'm thinking it's the other ON is open but hot meaning hot only to the switch not the light. I'm sorry, I can't just take NO for an answer, I need an explantion as to why not.

Last edited by selvan777; 01-03-2010 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:09 AM   #52
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I will step in here but you going not like to hear from me I am well verised with both North Americian and European wiring system and the way you draw for #3 luminaire it will not work espcally if single socket { bulb base }due you allready created a major code voliation plus what more you can NOT tie two diffrent netural circuits this is complety illegal to do this.

If I were you I will ditch that lay out and go with LV relay system so it will not affect the netural at all C'est simple .,,, if you willing go this route or go with X10 switching devices I know Scuba Dave allready have a thread going now so that part you can able look it up this one of few safe way you can do this with X10 or LV relay switching both are about the safest way you can deal with the luminaire hook up like that and you will not have to mess around with neturals at all.

Merci,Marc
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:14 AM   #53
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Oops, posted the below before I saw your post, Frenchelectrican.

Sorry, I think I got it now. I'm not use to AC. I see now that you can't have 2 hots OR 2 neutrals on a single fixture. Don't they make a dumb switch for this? I guess it would be a double pole double throw where both poles must operate together throwing the neutral and the hot at the same time. Am I on the right track now?

Last edited by selvan777; 01-04-2010 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:21 AM   #54
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Frenchelectrican,

I'm too tired right now but will look into those two options you mentioned later. Thanks for that, I'm just thinking there has to be a way without spending a whole lot of money and of course staying within code. The last thing I want to do is do something illegal.

Thanks again.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:30 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selvan777 View Post
Oops, posted the below before I saw your post, Frenchelectrican.

Sorry, I think I got it now. I'm not use to AC. I see now that you can't have 2 hots OR 2 neutrals on a single fixture. Don't they make a dumb switch for this? I guess it would be a double pole double throw where both poles must operate together throwing the neutral and the hot at the same time. Am I on the right track now?
The only time you will see that kind of connection in the luminaire typically found in commercal location for emergecy system and this is not in this scoop in the fourm so I will leave this part out due too complex to expain to average person and the codes are very strict on this part.

I will not mess around with DPDT switch idea it will cause more greif than it really worth it. so just let that part go just ditch it.

For other options Myself or Scuba Dave or other electricians or other members in this fourm will provide the idea where to go next and we will guide it correct way.

I will be back in early in the moring { due I am in France so the time zone will be diffrent than in North Americia area ( 08:30 {am } as I am typing )

So please understand us we are give you a safe way to do this.

Merci,Marc
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Old 01-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #56
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One last comment.
YOU CAN NOT USE THE HOT FROM ONE CIRCUT AND THE NEUTRAL FROM ANOTHER CIRCUIT. THIS CAN OVERLOAD THE NEUTRAL SINCE THE BREAKER TRIPS ON THE HOT CURRENT. Imagine each hot carrying 14 amps. The neutral would be carrying 28 amps. You at least need to use a double pole switch and switch the neutral as well.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:02 PM   #57
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Thanks Marc, guidance would be great.

In looking at the LV and X10 and I'm really not sure what exactly I would need to do the job, could you be more specific? If it means I have to spend say more than $40, forget about it.

I guess I just want to make sure I've made myself aware of all options before dumping adding that light to the loop.

Let me say I'm sorry for this but surely a DPDT is easy enough to configure in.

Thanks
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:06 PM   #58
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Quote:
In looking at the LV and X10 and I'm really not sure what exactly I would need to do the job, could you be more specific?
If you choose to look at X-10, be aware of a few things. First, my understanding of X-10 wall switches is that they respond to commands, but don't necessarily transmit commands. Secondly, not all respond to scene commands. I haven't thought a lot about it, but I would expect both capabilities would be necessary to implement the switchology you desire.

Another concern would be if your two circuits are on different phases of your electrical system. In such a case, a phase bridge would likely be necessary communicate between the two circuits.

Even with this, it is my experience that X-10 can be unreliable due to condition of your electrical power. Other devices can interfere with X-10 communication. Filters on such devices are often necessary.

It took me no small amount of effort to get X-10 to work reasonably well, and even then it was not anywhere near 100%. You may be able to stay in budget if all you need are four switches, but it may take more than just the switches.
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Old 01-04-2010, 07:51 PM   #59
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Let me say I'm sorry for this but surely a DPDT is easy enough to configure in.

Thanks
As above my comment stand don't bother messing around with DPDT it not worth it and safety issue will come up if done right so best thing is ditch that idea.

Just goggle X10 switching devices there are few articales allready written so far plus what more Scuba Dave he is working on getting more info with X10 so.,,

Dave !! please join in here and give him your expernice with X10

Merci,Marc

P.S. here the link what Dave is on that topic at the moment.

http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/x-10-...ng-else-60910/

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