DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Electrical (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/)
-   -   2nd floor Laundry and 2nd floor Bath, how many circuits? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/2nd-floor-laundry-2nd-floor-bath-how-many-circuits-68498/)

Bobblestop 04-07-2010 11:23 AM

2nd floor Laundry and 2nd floor Bath, how many circuits?
 
Hi,

I am new to this forum and new to running electrical circuits. I am currently remodeling two rooms in my house; one bath; and one laundry room.
After doing a bit of research, i am thinking of running 3 new circuits and I don't know if i am putting too much on any particular circuit (should i have a fourth?).

One 120v breaker with romex 20 amp 14-2 wire
For the Laundry room:
-1 outlet for the washer
-4 pot lights
-1 spare outlet

Another 120v breaker with romex 20 amp 14-2 wire
For the Bath room:
-1 spare outlet
-4 pot lights
-1 vent fan

One 240v breaker with romex 30 amp 12-3 wire
For the dryer

I also know that I will need gfci outlets for the outlets in the bath and laundry. What about gfci breakers? are they a good idea? Should I use one for the dryer? Do they have gfci outlets for washers?

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

AllanJ 04-07-2010 11:32 AM

Suggestion:

(this part required) One 20 amp. circuit directly to receptacle for washing machine, nearby receptacles too if desired, and not serving anything outside the laundry room.

(this part required) One 20 amp. circuit serving receptacles in the bathroom only. May also serve lights and fan in the bathroom. but 12 gauge wire must be run to everything served. Not serving anything outside the bathroom.

240 volt circuit for dryer as you described. Does not need GFCI protection.

Circuit (15 or 20 amp) to serve other things on second floor: lights, fans, non-bathroom receptacles, etc. Use GFCI if laundry receptacles are served, arc fault circuit interrupter if bedroom receptacles are served.

Your choice of GFCI breaker or GFCI receptacle as first receptacle along the line.

andrew79 04-07-2010 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblestop (Post 425229)
Hi,

I am new to this forum and new to running electrical circuits. I am currently remodeling two rooms in my house; one bath; and one laundry room.
After doing a bit of research, i am thinking of running 3 new circuits and I don't know if i am putting too much on any particular circuit (should i have a fourth?).

One 120v breaker with romex 20 amp 14-2 wire
For the Laundry room:
-1 outlet for the washer
-4 pot lights
-1 spare outlet

Another 120v breaker with romex 20 amp 14-2 wire
For the Bath room:
-1 spare outlet
-4 pot lights
-1 vent fan

One 240v breaker with romex 30 amp 12-3 wire
For the dryer

I also know that I will need gfci outlets for the outlets in the bath and laundry. What about gfci breakers? are they a good idea? Should I use one for the dryer? Do they have gfci outlets for washers?

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

first thing first....you need 12/2 for 20A and #10's for the dryer. I'm not to sure on wether or not you need a dedicated circuit for the wash maching but it's a good idea to have one in my opinion. Are the bath and laundry room next to each other? If so i would wire it like this.
240V for dryer (#10's)
120V for washer (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)
120V for GFCI (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)
120V for potlights/fan/utility plug in laundry/bath (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)

A wash machine is just a regular plug so you can just install a gfci on it as well if want. Gfci breaker and plugs both do the same job...the breakers tend to be much more expensive.
The reason I say use a seperate circuit for the gfci in the bath is that if you've got a hairdryer and say a curling iron plugged in at the same time you chewing up pretty much one full circuit anyways.
Other things i wanted to mention are the fact that unless your laundry room and bath rooms are rather huge then 4 pot lights is alot. Keep in mind also that your going to need to have 20A rated devices installed(gfci's and plugs) as well if you go with the 12/2 and 20A breakers...standard devices are only rated for 15A.

moorewarner 04-07-2010 11:39 AM

I generally like to be helpful but from this post it seems clear that you don't have much of an understanding of the electrical job you are attempting.

I would highly recommend you have an electrician do this work. I highly recommend you also have a proper permit pulled for this work.

In some locations, the city I live in for example, a homeowner is able to pull their own permits.

I know you want this done correctly, or else you wouldn't be here asking about it, and an important part of that is getting appropriate permits.

secutanudu 04-07-2010 11:40 AM

You cannot use 14 gauge wire on a 20-amp circuit. Must be 12 gauge.

You can use 14 gauge on a 15A circuit.

Edit: I hadn't refreshed the page in a while....looks like this was said already.

Bobblestop 04-07-2010 11:46 AM

I realize my mistake in stating that I would use 14 gauge wire with a 20 amp. breaker. I had read that if you are running a line a long distance you should go up in size. Instead I indicated going up in gauge. My mistake.

Are there any drawbacks in doing this?

secutanudu 04-07-2010 11:51 AM

It takes a pretty long run to require going up in size. You probably do not need to. How long is the run?

moorewarner 04-07-2010 11:51 AM

{Please re-read our posting rules
This is a DIY site }
Moderator

Bobblestop 04-07-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 425245)
first thing first....you need 12/2 for 20A and #10's for the dryer. I'm not to sure on wether or not you need a dedicated circuit for the wash maching but it's a good idea to have one in my opinion. Are the bath and laundry room next to each other? If so i would wire it like this.
240V for dryer (#10's)
120V for washer (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)
120V for GFCI (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)
120V for potlights/fan/utility plug in laundry/bath (12's for 20A or 14's for 15A)

A wash machine is just a regular plug so you can just install a gfci on it as well if want. Gfci breaker and plugs both do the same job...the breakers tend to be much more expensive.
The reason I say use a seperate circuit for the gfci in the bath is that if you've got a hairdryer and say a curling iron plugged in at the same time you chewing up pretty much one full circuit anyways.
Other things i wanted to mention are the fact that unless your laundry room and bath rooms are rather huge then 4 pot lights is alot. Keep in mind also that your going to need to have 20A rated devices installed(gfci's and plugs) as well if you go with the 12/2 and 20A breakers...standard devices are only rated for 15A.


Thank you for the advice. The bath and laundry are right beside each other. Is there any drawback to having 12/2 and 20a breakers instead of 14/2 and 15a?

Bobblestop 04-07-2010 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu (Post 425258)
It takes a pretty long run to require going up in size. You probably do not need to. How long is the run?


It's about a 60 foot run.

Scuba_Dave 04-07-2010 12:02 PM

Canada rules are different from those in the USA, but many are similar
So I am not sure what exactly is required for Canada
I prefer to run all 12g 20a runs for normal household outlets
I also prefer to seperate lights from outlet circuits

I run a 12g 20a run for each bathroom
I prefer a GFCI outlet so I can reset it in the bathroom if needed
In the US a dedicated 12g 20a circuit is required for Laundry area
My washer is rated at 7.3a max - probably spin cycle
For a 30a 240v dryer 10g wire is required, here you need a 4 wire feed
I've never had a dryer on a GFCI, double pole GFCI breakers are really expensive

I know Canada restricts how many lights/outlets can be on a circuit
60' run you do not need to worry about voltage drop

andrew79 04-07-2010 12:04 PM

I've been delaying this day since i joined this site but being as your in my neck of the woods i guess I'd better get out my code book :laughing:. I seem to recall there being a limit on branch circuit size in some cases and i'll have to check it out as i don't want to misinform you.

60 feet is nowhere near far enough to require upsizing of the wires. It's probably cheaper in the long run to use 14/2 and have an extra run than it is to pay the extra for 12/2 and the 20A devices/breakers.

Bobblestop 04-07-2010 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrew79 (Post 425273)
I've been delaying this day since i joined this site but being as your in my neck of the woods i guess I'd better get out my code book :laughing:. I seem to recall there being a limit on branch circuit size in some cases and i'll have to check it out as i don't want to misinform you.

60 feet is nowhere near far enough to require upsizing of the wires. It's probably cheaper in the long run to use 14/2 and have an extra run than it is to pay the extra for 12/2 and the 20A devices/breakers.


Thanks, i appreciate it!

So i guess its safe to assume that I should be OK to run 14/2 15A for the:
-Washer
-bathroom GFCI
-Potlights (probably 6 now), fan and untilty plug

...and 10/4 30a 220v line for the dryer

andrew79 04-07-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblestop (Post 425281)
Thanks, i appreciate it!

So i guess its safe to assume that I should be OK to run 14/2 15A for the:
-Washer
-bathroom GFCI
-Potlights (probably 6 now), fan and untilty plug

...and 10/4 30a 220v line for the dryer

ok your on your own with the metric to imperial conversion :laughing:
the washer, if installed within 600mm of the floor and behind the washer ,does NOT need a gfci(this only applies if near a washbasin otherwise it's moot point). The utility plug in the laundry room must either be on the same circuit as the washer or on it's own line. The plug in the bathroom Must be within 1 meter of the washbasin but at a distance of 1m for the shower/tub. If this isn't possible your allowed to go down to 500mm. This distance isn't necessarily measured in a straight line...it goes around walls if there are any in the direct line.
It doesn't say anywhere that you must have a 20A circuit for any of the above only that if 20A circuits are used you must have the approved CL listed devices for install.

sooooo now that i've had my refresher course here's what i would do.
run one 14/2 up for the lights and the fan in the bath and laundry.
run a 12/2 for the washer and utility plug(this will give you ample power for use in the utility plug)
run a 10/3 plus ground for the dryer(when installing plug ground goes up i believe. same height as washer plug)
run a 12/2 for the bathrrom gfci(a hairdryer draws 12A sometimes. the will leave extra if you have the 20A circuit....but if your bach'n it and don't use a hairdryer feel free to drop it down to 15A:laughing:)

edit....few things i forgot to add
the bath plug can't be behind the sink it must be adjacent.
the utility plug in the laundry room if a washbasin is installed has to GFCI protected as well if it's within 3m of the washbasin

this is by no means the minimum you could get away with. you could have the bathrooms GFCI and the lights/fan on the same circuit but you would have to limit the bath gfci to 15A as no lighting circuit may be fused at greater than 15A. So i think the way i stated it above is the way to go.

brric 04-07-2010 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblestop (Post 425281)
Thanks, i appreciate it!

So i guess its safe to assume that I should be OK to run 14/2 15A for the:
-Washer
-bathroom GFCI
-Potlights (probably 6 now), fan and untilty plug

...and 10/4 30a 220v line for the dryer

NO. Bath GFCI 12 gauge at 20 amps.
Washer 12 gauge at 20 amps.
Dryer 10 gauge at 30 amps. 10-3 with ground
Lighting circuits, general use reseps 14 gauge at 15 amps.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 PM.