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Old 08-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #1
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220V Garage recepticals


Do 220V garage recepticals need to be GFCI protected? If so, where do you find 220V GFCI recepticals (or do you get a GFCI circuit breaker)

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Old 08-21-2008, 03:05 PM   #2
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Do 220V garage recepticals need to be GFCI protected? If so, where do you find 220V GFCI recepticals (or do you get a GFCI circuit breaker)
I'm not very well versed on the GFCI issue, but as I understand it you want GFCI outlets where-ever electrical outlets are going to be close to water, like by a bathroom vanity or a kitchen cabinet with a sink--the fast action of the GFCI will interrupt the electrical current delivery should someone grab a plug with wet hands and try to stick it into the receptacle, thereby becoming an unintentional ground and getting electrocuted.

Do you plan on having your garage 220-V receptacles near water ??????

Others with better knowledge of codes, etc. will probably have more info to provide, I'm just functioning on a theoretical basis here........

Good luck!

Dugly

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Old 08-21-2008, 03:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by daxinarian View Post
Do 220V garage recepticals need to be GFCI protected? If so, where do you find 220V GFCI recepticals (or do you get a GFCI circuit breaker)
GFCI protection is only required for 15 and 20A 120V receptacles. If you want to provide GFCI protection for a 220V receptacle, you must use a GFCI circuit Breaker ($$).
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:48 PM   #4
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220V Garage recepticals


Thanks HouseHelper, can you (or anyone else) point me to the apropriate code section.

YerDugliness: NEC requires all outlets in a garge to be GFCI (there used to be some exceptions, but 2008 got rid of alot of them). I wasn't sure if 220 was an exception to the "all outlets" rule or not.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:06 PM   #5
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220V Garage recepticals


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Originally Posted by daxinarian View Post
YerDugliness: NEC requires all outlets in a garge to be GFCI (there used to be some exceptions, but 2008 got rid of alot of them). I wasn't sure if 220 was an exception to the "all outlets" rule or not.
There is certainly NOT an "all outlets" rule.

2005 NEC

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel


(A) Dwelling Units All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

Exception No. 1 to (2): Receptacles that are not readily accessible.

Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).




The 2008 NEC removed both exceptions to 210.8(A)(2).
So for 2008 folks it's not "all outlets". It's "All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles".
BIG difference.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:58 PM   #6
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220V Garage recepticals


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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
There is certainly NOT an "all outlets" rule.

2005 NEC

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use

Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

The 2008 NEC removed both exceptions to 210.8(A)(2).
So for 2008 folks it's not "all outlets". It's "All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles".
BIG difference.
Now you've got my attention--this renovation program I've undertaken on the old family home includes an old garage. It was devoid of electricity for 50 years or more, until I had 100 amp service run to it during a recent upgrade of electrical service for the home on the property.

At this point the floor is the ground, but in the near future I plan on having a 4" concrete floor poured in the garage. This means it will not be at or below grade level as specified above.

I fully understand the need for GFCI in a ground level situation--we had a rainstorm last summer with heavy wind, that wind blew rainwater at least halfway into that garage. That could present a hazard!

So.........do I need to use GFCI outlets in that garage or does the (future) floor being above grade level void the requirement.......

Dugly
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:25 PM   #7
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At this point the floor is the ground, but in the near future I plan on having a 4" concrete floor poured in the garage. This means it will not be at or below grade level as specified above.
Sorry, but this certainly IS at grade.
You will need GFIs pretty much everywhere but the ceiling.

Whether you need them in the ceiling hinges on whether you are under the 2005 or the 2008 NEC, or some other code.
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:38 PM   #8
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Sorry, but this certainly IS at grade.
You will need GFIs pretty much everywhere but the ceiling.

Whether you need them in the ceiling hinges on whether you are under the 2005 or the 2008 NEC, or some other code.
Rather unique situation here, a very small SW KS town that has absolutely NO codes, no permits, nor any inspectors/inspections. The town has one full time employee who maintains the city's water system, the city property in the town, and the dirt roads in town. I asked him about codes and his answer was to just make sure to have somebody who knew what they are doing wire the new electrical service in. I did, hired a licensed electrician, but I felt that I could handle all the wiring of the circuits once he had the service line attached to the service panel.

So, as far as code requirements, there may be none, I don't know and certainly the only employee of the small town doesn't. Maybe there is a state requirement, there doesn't seem to be any county requirement. I realize that the NEC stands for "National" electrical code, does that apply even though no other code or enforcement system exists?

Sometimes I'm lost, just fumbling in the dark, other times I feel as if I know what I'm doing and find out through threads like this that I'm sorely mistaken. So far I've only installed 2 outlets, one in each of two 30 amp circuits I installed, maybe I need to replace them with GFCI outlets??

So, given the scenario I've just drawn out, other than just saying "...it's code" (which doesn't seem to apply in that small town) what reason would I have to need GFCI outlets in a garage where there is no water?

Thanks, as you can see this is becoming quite a learning experience for me!!

Dugly

Last edited by YerDugliness; 08-21-2008 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:13 PM   #9
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220V Garage recepticals


I don't know what purpose you installed the 30 amp circuit for but general purpose circuits are limited to a max. of 20 amps.

Dryer circuits would be fine at 30 amps, but they are for a specific use, not general purpose.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:15 PM   #10
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I know there areas like you describe, I just don't believe that there are no codes in place to promote safe building practices.
OK, maybe I just don't want to believe it.

IMO you can never go wrong by following at least a bare minimum of code standards.

IMO installing GFIs in a garage IS a good idea, water or not. By this I mean for 120v, 15 & 20 amp recptacles.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:50 PM   #11
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I think you'll find the reasoning behind having GFCI 15 & 20 A / 120 V receptacles is due to the floor of a garage. A dirt or a concrete floor can be conductive. Wanna stand barefoot on a wet dirt or concrete floor and touch a 'live' wire?? Not me. It's been my training that the code writers figure 99.9999999% of garage floors are dirt, concrete, brick, etc. and conductive. Not many are built to be insulated from electric shock.

As far as code requirements...I'm sure your state has adopted the NEC, at least a more current version. Michigan is one cycle behind. Nov 2007, we finally got the green light to use the 2005 version.

Last edited by SD515; 08-21-2008 at 07:58 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:44 PM   #12
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I don't know what purpose you installed the 30 amp circuit for but general purpose circuits are limited to a max. of 20 amps.
I installed 30 amp breakers and 10-2 with ground wiring so that I could have a high load limit. I foresee using this garage in the future for a variety of purposes, one of which is a pottey studio. I'm also quite involved with sports/racing cars and sometimes that requires a good bit of power. I just wanted to be sure I had at least 2 circuits (one on each side of the garage) that would support a heavy load. I do plan on installing various other circuits, both outlet and lighting, that will be 20 amp/12-2 with ground or 15 amp/14-2 with ground, as well as 220-V circuits of various ratings that will be needed to support the pottery production--things like kilns and drying cabinets, etc.

This structure may also be used for some experimentation with solar projects, I foresee a small greenhouse structure that could be heated by a batch-type solar water heater...

Dugly
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:15 PM   #13
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I installed 30 amp breakers and 10-2 with ground wiring so that I could have a high load limit.
I'm not mocking you or anything by any means Dugly, but just curious. Are you saying that you hooked up the 10/2 directly to receptacles, protected by 30A breaker(s)?? If so, what is the amperage rating of the receptacle?
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:43 PM   #14
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I installed 30 amp breakers and 10-2 with ground wiring so that I could have a high load limit.
I agree with SD.
I hope you only did this with 30A receptacles!
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:45 PM   #15
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I'm not mocking you or anything by any means Dugly, but just curious. Are you saying that you hooked up the 10/2 directly to receptacles, protected by 30A breaker(s)?? If so, what is the amperage rating of the receptacle?
Yep, that's what I did. The receptacles were the type with one vertical lug slot on the left and the right side slot a sideways T shape. It was the highest rated receptacle I could find in that small SW KS county, probably only 20 amp rated, I don't know, I just told them I wanted the strongest receptacles they had and that's what they gave me. I'd check, but I'm in TX right now.....

Like I said, this has all been a real learning experience. I'm looking for 30 amp receptacles, Speedy Petey mentioned them, so they must be available, anyone know where a guy could get some??

Really, though, I just wanted 30 amp capacity for the entire circuit, having had some 20 amp breakers flip off in the house when I used a small 1500 watt electric room heater and some other electrical items on the same circuit. I could foresee quite a few power hungry electrical tools being used at the same time if we're involved in an intense mechanical project, didn't want to have to worry about the breaker flipping off. Right now there is only one outlet on each of the two circuits, but that will change soon .

Dugly


Last edited by YerDugliness; 08-21-2008 at 09:48 PM. Reason: new info in SP's recent post regarding 30A receptacles
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