220V 15A Outlet In Garage - Electrical - Page 5 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2012, 07:49 PM   #61
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,989
Rewards Points: 2,776
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasin View Post
If he has 12 gauge wiring he can upgrade to a 20 amp braker NO problem. That was not his question though. He was asking about using a 20 amp outlet, I think he means ... "receptacle", on a 15amp circuit. And that is perfectly fine, he can do that. No code violations there.

Only problem is upgrading the breaker to 20amp when only having 14 gauge wiring. He did not say he is doing that. At least, not from what I read.
As has been said several times in this thread you cannot install a 20 amp receptacle on the 15 amp circuit. In fact I even provided the code table that applies.

Quote:
You know, it really helps if we use the correct terms. Receptacles and outlets are two different things. We should not use the term "outlet" in reference to a receptacle.

A receptacle meets the NEC definition of an outlet. Looks like someone needs to brush up on a lot of things.

Advertisement

__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 07:50 PM   #62
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 393
Rewards Points: 250
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Oh really?
Same context and general meaning, so yes .. I was saying the same.
jasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #63
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,989
Rewards Points: 2,776
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Where is the troll patrol?
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
Speedy Petey (01-26-2012)
Old 01-23-2012, 08:01 PM   #64
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,955
Rewards Points: 2,306
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Don't feed the troll!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 08:05 PM   #65
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
As has been said several times in this thread you cannot install a 20 amp receptacle on the 15 amp circuit. In fact I even provided the code table that applies.....
I disagree with you on this one.

But let's explore the issue so there is no misunderstanding.

You posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Try Table 210.21(B)(2)....
OK, but the OP said this:

Quote:
Is this a code violation to put a 20A outlet when it is only served by 15A circuit? I am thinking its not really a safety hazard because the breaker and branch wiring are sized for 15A....
So far so good?

Now, the table that you are talking about is referenced in section 210.21(B)(2). The text of that section says thus:
Quote:
...Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets ...
But the OP is talking about a single outlet here, and as such, section 210.21(B)(2) and its accompanying table does not apply to this situation.

Instead, let's look at section 210.21(B)(1):

Quote:
Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an amperage not less than that of the branch circuit.
A 20 Amp receptacle is not less than the 15 Amp circuit on which it is installed, as per the scenario of the OP.

In other words, it is a compliant installation as is!!

Edit to add: Apparently the OP has clarified that this circuit has other outlets on it as well, making this whole post a moot point.

Your original assertion appears to be correct in this case, Jim.
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!

Last edited by kbsparky; 01-23-2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: Additional info
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 08:43 PM   #66
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 848
Rewards Points: 722
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
I disagree with you on this one.

A 20 Amp receptacle is not less than the 15 Amp circuit on which it is installed, as per the scenario of the OP.

In other words, it is a compliant installation as is!!


Wow I didn't mean to turn this into a 5 page rant. Thanks to the few of you who stayed on point. As for the rest well can you say forum clutter.

Just to clarify. The 240V single receptacle is fed via 15A 2 pole breaker and 14 AWG wire in EMT. This feed also serves two 120V GFCI outlets and three additional duplex receptacles downstream of the GFCIs (2 on one, 1 on the other). So the 240V receptacle (Nema 6-20) is a single receptacle but it is on a branch circuit with five other 120V duplex outlets.

So it looks like I have to switch to a Nema 6-15 style receptacle (240V/15A) (from the Nema 6-20) so I can stay with 15A wiring or I have to pull 12 AWG wire in the EMT back to panel and separate the 240V outlet to a dedicated branch circuit. Hereís where the plot thickens. The EMT to the panel has a buried junction box that is inaccessible so I'd have to poke holes in drywall to get to that pull point...

Or I can just stay with the Nema 6-20 on the 15A branch circuit and live with it. Itís not code compliant but not really a safety issue since the branch is adequately protected with 14AWG and 15A breaker.

I didnít know going in that Nema 6-15 was a fringe plug style and that Nema 6-20 is the much more popular standard. Live and learn.



curiousB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 09:33 PM   #67
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


OK, now you have thrown the proverbial wrench into the machinery.

You have a multi-wire branch circuit here?

Two hots and a neutral wire coming from the panel?

If it's in EMT, why not install a separate feed for the single 240 Volt outlet? Cut open that buried box, and make it accessible/legal.
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 01:17 PM   #68
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 848
Rewards Points: 722
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


OK I am just going to switch the plugs to Nema 6-15. Just ordered all I need on eBay for $30. That is easier than pulling new wire and a separate branch circuit. I know from a couple years of usage there is no overload issue on these circuits. This has entirely been an exercise to bring it into NEC compliance.
curiousB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #69
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,545
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
To answer the OPs question, you cannot put the 20 amp receptacle on the 15 amp wiring.

To Joe, Does your insector make up their own rules or is there a local amendment to the NEC? It is not in the NEC to require a 20 amp receptacle circuit for a garage.
If it's a single receptacle on a dedicated circuit, you can. See 210.21 (B)(1).
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #70
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 393
Rewards Points: 250
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
As has been said several times in this thread you cannot install a 20 amp receptacle on the 15 amp circuit. In fact I even provided the code table that applies.




A receptacle meets the NEC definition of an outlet. Looks like someone needs to brush up on a lot of things.
15amp breakers can be upgraded to 20amp breakers.

http://ecmweb.com/nec/code-basics/br...ents-20110201/

http://books.google.com/books?id=sK3...B)(1).&f=false

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_us..._a_20A_circuit

Last edited by jasin; 01-24-2012 at 09:01 PM.
jasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #71
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 393
Rewards Points: 250
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
If it's a single receptacle on a dedicated circuit, you can. See 210.21 (B)(1).
I would just like to note.

Only in the USA is that permitted.
jasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 09:30 PM   #72
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 393
Rewards Points: 250
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousB View Post
OK I am just going to switch the plugs to Nema 6-15. Just ordered all I need on eBay for $30. That is easier than pulling new wire and a separate branch circuit. I know from a couple years of usage there is no overload issue on these circuits. This has entirely been an exercise to bring it into NEC compliance.
Just because there is no overload by usage it could still qualify as overloaded under NEC code or local code. So its always best to double and triple check in the NEC code and at the local municipalities.

Last edited by jasin; 01-24-2012 at 09:43 PM.
jasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 11:12 PM   #73
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,916
Rewards Points: 2,010
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Yeah but you also need 12g wire to go with it
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 11:14 PM   #74
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,916
Rewards Points: 2,010
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasin View Post
I would just like to note.

Only in the USA is that permitted.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 11:52 PM   #75
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 393
Rewards Points: 250
Default

220V 15A outlet in Garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by plummen View Post
GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Advertisement

jasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
European 220v Tools use with US 220v Outlet dominator Electrical 20 08-03-2012 12:21 AM
small secondary countertop outlet issue rasz Electrical 8 11-07-2011 05:14 PM
Odd voltages at outlet TJF Electrical 12 11-01-2011 10:13 PM
de-activate 220v electric stove outlet 6fthook Electrical 17 10-04-2011 07:32 PM
Garage Insulation yamster Insulation 0 07-01-2011 02:30 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts