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Old 10-22-2011, 07:53 PM   #1
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220 wiring questions


Hi everybody, I'm new to the forum, and I'm just looking for a helpful answer.
To begin, I am nothing NEAR a licensed electrician. I have been doing it myself, with the help of books, for about 10 years, and have little proper experience, but I have been wiring long enough to understand the difference from good and bad wiring.
With that out of the way on the the reason I'm here.
I am trying to wire in a 220 box for a stove, and have come upon a snag. There is no more room in the electrical box for another breaker, so I am wondering if this idea will work...
There is a 25A for a Water Heater, and a 25A for the AC. They are both run individually to their own 220 breakers.
If I were to get a 50A breaker and wire them both to it, to make room for the 50A for the stove?
Any and all assistance would be appreciated. thanks.
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Old 10-22-2011, 11:04 PM   #2
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220 wiring questions


This is not a good idea. Its not even to code. This is a good time to call in a pro to asses the situation. There are ways that are similar to what you want to do, but some items need to be looked at first. Let the electrician advise you on the best method. It will be money well spent.
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Old 10-23-2011, 04:21 AM   #3
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220 wiring questions


Better off installing a sub panel.
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:15 AM   #4
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Last edited by Speedy Petey; 10-23-2011 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Misread OP. My reply was incorrect because of it.
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:32 AM   #5
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You will need a subpanel. It is possible that stove, air conditioner, and water heater can all be on at the same time.

You could use a 60 amp breaker and 6 gauge wiring in the main panel for the subpanel where you moved the two 25 amp breakers and existing circuits for water heater and air conditioner and a few other new circuits could be put in the subpanel as well.

Don't forget, neutrals and grounds are kept separate in a subpanel.

The water heater must be breakered at no more than X amps; the A/C must be breakered at no more than X amps, etc. And 10 gauge wires can't be hung anywhere off of a more-than-30-amp circuit. So you could not put a 25 amp A/C and a 25 amp water heater on a 50 amp breaker without a subpanel in between.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 10-23-2011 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:59 AM   #6
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220 wiring questions


Depending on the brand and model of the load center, you may be able to instal tandem or twin breakers. These are half size breakers that will free up space to add additional breakers.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:54 AM   #7
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You may want to call a electrician and have him so a load calculation for your entire service. If you have a 100A service and your panel is already full it is possible to have a overload on service and you would start tripping the main breaker.
Play it safe.

Last edited by muckusmc; 10-23-2011 at 08:54 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #8
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220 wiring questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilz View Post
I am trying to wire in a 220 box for a stove, and have come upon a snag. There is no more room in the electrical box for another breaker, so I am wondering if this idea will work... There is a 25A for a Water Heater, and a 25A for the AC. They are both run individually to their own 220 breakers. If I were to get a 50A breaker and wire them both to it, to make room for the 50A for the stove?
You can't combine as you describe for several reasons. Most important is one of the circuits (with wires and appliance rated for 25A max) could draw zero amps and the other (also with wires and appliance rated for 25A max) could draw 49A. The breaker would see 49A, not trip, and your appliance, wires, and probably house would be up in smoke. Also, your breakers probably aren't rated for two wires under each lug (few are).

I would go with the duplex breaker option. Pick four circuits to combine on to two duplex breakers. That will free up room for your new double-pole.

A load calc isn't a terrible idea, but you could easily have a full panel with a small load if the electrician was over-zealous about dividing circuits. If you don't have the capacity for the new circuit, the worst case is you get nuisance trips on your main breaker (and then it's time to get the checkbook out for a service upgrade, or at least avoid simultaneous high loads until you can afford it).

That said, why don't you already have a breaker for a stove? Are you converting over from gas? Your service might not be sized for all of these electrical appliances. I could easily see a situation where you are running an oven, dryer, a/c, and HWH-- right there you're easily drawing 90-100A. How big is your existing service?

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Old 10-23-2011, 11:13 AM   #9
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I could easily see a situation where you are running an oven, dryer, a/c, and HWH-- right there you're easily drawing 90-100A.
This is pretty unrealistic.
I think the word "easily" should be replaced with "highly unlikely".

You'd have to be cooking a turkey while also using all four burners, while doing laundry in BOTH machines, in the middle of summer.
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