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Old 10-06-2008, 01:23 PM   #1
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Hello all....

I have a three pole 220 receptacle in my garage and I just purchased a welder that does not have a plug. Coming out of the welder it has a green, white and black wire.

My question is can I use this kind of plug in my 220 receptacle.

http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/4449658

I am used to the bigger plugs for a dryer and a range, this one looked a little on the small side.

Thanks

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Old 10-06-2008, 01:45 PM   #2
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


What is the line side ampere rating of your welder?

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Old 10-06-2008, 01:47 PM   #3
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
What is the line side ampere rating of your welder?
Welder rating says Draws 15 amps @ 230 volts

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:49 PM   #4
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by ryankalel View Post
Welder rating says Draws 15 amps @ 230 volts

Thanks
Well, then the plug that you posted is rated for it, but I would opt for a 20 A plug and a 20 A circuit. What is the wire size and circuit rating to the receptacle in your garage?
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:51 PM   #5
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Well, then the plug that you posted is rated for it, but I would opt for a 20 A plug and a 20 A circuit. What is the wire size and circuit rating to the receptacle in your garage?
Good question, I will have to run home and check.

If I wanted to make an extension cord, so I could move the welder around the garage a little easier, should I use 10/3, 8/3?

Thanks again.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:55 PM   #6
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by ryankalel View Post
Good question, I will have to run home and check.

If I wanted to make an extension cord, so I could move the welder around the garage a little easier, should I use 10/3, 8/3?

Thanks again.
Depends on how far you want to extend, but if just a few feet, then 12-3 cord would be ok, but 10-3 is great and 8-3 is just overkill.
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:26 PM   #7
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Depends on how far you want to extend, but if just a few feet, then 12-3 cord would be ok, but 10-3 is great and 8-3 is just overkill.
Ok, I just took my lunch break and I picked up some 8/3 and a 20 amp plug. I should be good to go. Green to ground that is the vertical blade coming off of the plug (bottom) the other two blades on the top of the plug, does it matter which one goes where?

thanks again!!
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:30 PM   #8
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by ryankalel View Post
Ok, I just took my lunch break and I picked up some 8/3 and a 20 amp plug. I should be good to go. Green to ground that is the vertical blade coming off of the plug (bottom) the other two blades on the top of the plug, does it matter which one goes where?

thanks again!!
Yes, the ground goes on the round pin of the plug. The other two wires in 240 V circuit are interchangeable. I think you may have a hard time getting 8-3 into a 20 A cord cap, but I could be wrong.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:17 PM   #9
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Yes, the ground goes on the round pin of the plug. The other two wires in 240 V circuit are interchangeable. I think you may have a hard time getting 8-3 into a 20 A cord cap, but I could be wrong.
Why is he using 3 wire it is only regular 240 only need 2 wire with ground. Can't believe you didn't pick up on this.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:41 PM   #10
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Pudge

They are talking about flexible cord..... a 12/3 cord is 2 hots and a ground. flexible cord always includes the ground wire in the cord designation.

Quote:
Can't believe you didn't pick up on this.
Instead of making a demeaning remark to inphase277 why not just ask a question as to why you think he forgot the extra hot conductor. Now... you have shot yourself in the foot....

Last edited by Stubbie; 10-06-2008 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:28 AM   #11
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


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Originally Posted by Pudge565 View Post
Why is he using 3 wire it is only regular 240 only need 2 wire with ground. Can't believe you didn't pick up on this.
Run along and go to class junior.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:17 PM   #12
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


OK, guys, help me understand why using 20 amp breaker with an appliance rated for 15 amps is a good idea.....I have been trying to get a 30 amp 120V circuit into my house for a high power entertainment system and universally the advice has been that the amperage rating of the receptacles and appliances should be matched to the amperage rating of the breaker. I ran 10/2 with ground from a 30 amp breaker and wanted to connect to that wire with 20 amp receptacles, was told by everyone that I could easily start a fire by providing a circuit that could exceed the power capacities of the receptacles and the appliances that would be plugged into those receptacles. The house is idle right now, but when I return to the house I plan on replacing the 30 amp breakers with 20 amp breakers to avoid this dangerous situation.

Not trolling here to cause trouble, just trying to understand.....is it that 220V has different overload characteristics than 120V?

Dugly

Last edited by YerDugliness; 10-07-2008 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Make the question more clear--it was poorly stated originally
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:39 PM   #13
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Dugly,

There is no problem using heavier gauge wire than required for a circuit. In fact it would be required if it were derated. So using 10/2 wire on a 20A breaker is no problem, but using 12/2 wire on a 30A breaker is fire. But I think people were worried about fire in your case because your breaker and wire were compatible, but your receptacle was only 20A. So if you plugged, lets say, 25A of load into that circuit, the breaker would not trip, your wire would not overheat, but the receptacle would. (It would also not be up to code).

More importantly, if you plugged a power tap that didn't have its own breaker into the receptacle, you could end up putting 25A through that tap (probably rated at 15A), or worse through a 16/3 extension cord rated at 13A. The fire would start at the receptacle or something plugged into it.

So replacing the 30A breaker with a 20A and putting a 20A recep. on the end is absolutely the right thing to do. The 10/2 wire is perfectly OK. However, if you're using power strips for your equipment, make sure they're rated for 20A OR breakered at 15A. If it's rated 15A without a breaker, again, you risk putting 20A through wiring/etc that's rated 15A.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:49 PM   #14
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Sorry, forgot your last question: 220V (240V) would be the same deal as above. Same overload characteristics. Double the voltage and you can double the wattage carried by the same wire. (So 10 AWG is rated 30A @ 120V (3600W) and 30A @240V (7200W). (Not exactly, but for the purposes of this discussion it's accurate).
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:21 PM   #15
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220 Welder Plug Wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by YerDugliness View Post
OK, guys, help me understand why using 20 amp breaker with an appliance rated for 15 amps is a good idea.....

Not trolling here to cause trouble, just trying to understand.....is it that 220V has different overload characteristics than 120V?

Dugly
ScottR answered about the wire size correctly, but we also consider the cord size and the plug rating on the cord. The 15 A plug is the one with two parallel straight blades. Equipment manufacturers that use these plugs don't expect the equipment to pull more than 15 amps under normal operation. And 20 amp receptacles can accept 15 amp plugs. Let's say your 15 A plug is mated with a 20 A receptacle. Then below 15 A, the plug is OK. Above 15 A it is heating up, and at 20 A (or so) the circuit breaker opens.

Now, put it on a 30 A circuit. At 20 A the plug is nice and hot. At 25 the insulation is really in trouble. At 28, the insulation melts off and a short develops, causing an arc that catches something on fire. Not to mention the fact that breakers don't really trip at their rated value, depending on a number of conditions. A 30 A breaker may provide 35 or 40 amps continuously in cool conditions.

At any rate, the code allows us to use 15 amp outlets on 20 amp circuits, as long as there is more than one outlet. The difference between 15 and 20 is 5 amps. The difference between 15 and 30 is three times greater, meaning three times the heating effect.

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