Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-12-2009, 09:49 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
Rewards Points: 0
Share |
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


I have a 220 outlet in my garage/shop. Wire is 12/3 with ground ( red, black, white, & bare ground). I believe I need a 2 pole 20 amp GFC breaker in the subpanel? If so, should the breaker have the short white pigtail? In this case how is the breaker wired to the black, red, white and ground circuit wires and panel?

Second scenario: Same garage/shop. same circuit. But I've added a 120 volt circuit out of the 220 volt outlet box by pigtailing off the black, white and ground wires in the 220 volt outlet box.
Is the same type of GFC breaker used? Is this gfc breaker wired differently because the 220 volt circuit has a 120 circuit off it?

Captflx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 09:53 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,793
Rewards Points: 18
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


You do not need the gfci for the 220 outlet. If you do put one in, be prepared for sticker shock.
All gfci breakers will have the white pigtail.
You would not wire it any differently in either case.

__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 07:52 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


If I decide to use a GFC breaker in the panel, will it protect the 110 volt branch?
If I don't use a GFC breaker, won't I need a GFCI receptacle at the 110 volt outlet?
Captflx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 08:21 AM   #4
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,541
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captflx View Post
If I decide to use a GFC breaker in the panel, will it protect the 110 volt branch?
If I don't use a GFC breaker, won't I need a GFCI receptacle at the 110 volt outlet?
Yes and yes.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 09:56 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Thanks!
Captflx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 04:28 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Orleans,LA
Posts: 128
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captflx View Post
If I decide to use a GFC breaker in the panel, will it protect the 110 volt branch?
If I don't use a GFC breaker, won't I need a GFCI receptacle at the 110 volt outlet?
why would you want to use a gfi breaker?
NolaTigaBait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 07:47 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 107
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


I understand that on a 220 v, with 2 hots and a ground, that a GFCI breaker is not required. However, I don't understand why because if touch either hot wire, I think I can get fried. If this is the case, I really don't understand why a GFCI breaker is not required. On the other hand, If I have a GFCI breaker on the 220 volts and I touch both hots at the same time, the GFCI breaker will not function because it doesn't sense the "leak" or voltage difference between the two hot lines. ( I think!)

I was going to be extra cautious especially since I will have a 110 branch off the 220 recepticle.
Captflx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


I have a 220 VAC (black red white green) circuit coming to a pool pump area. I want to use the common Neutral and ground and have 2 -110VAC GFCI circuts. Sounds simple right?

When I did this I used Leviton GFCIs when hotted up, only one of the recepticals will work the other trips off. If you reset the right receptical the left receptical trips, if you reset the left the right trips off.


I checked grounds to Neutral and its .2 ohms. Please dont tell me I need separate Neutrals back to the breaker panel it's 90 feet. Can I just as well drive in a grounding bar nto the earth, at the receptical location and connect my ground and Neutrals there?

What could be causing this to happen EMF? It doesn't make any sense to me.
tuning50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 07:59 PM   #9
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,142
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


The box where the 3 wire enters, do you have both neutrals under the plug or did you make a pigtail on the neutral for there is only one white wire on the first plug.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2011, 08:15 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,951
Rewards Points: 16
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Be sure that the power is connected to each GFCI receptacle at its line terminals (not its load terminals).
__________________
Stop wasting time re-adjusting the pattern. Have several lawn sprinklers, one for each pattern.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:28 AM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


yep Im connected into the line side of the socket not even using the load side. I have a pigtail jumper for Neutral and ground over to the other GFCI.

I asked my brother he said one of the GFCI doesn't like the minute change in resistance when the other is reset. His advice is to run separate neutrals back to the breaker box, but still use the common ground wire. He smiles an said, Besides both circuits should have their own Neutral per code.

So OK I have to do it per code. even though max load would have been 8 AMPs .

Originally it was only suppose to be one 110 circuit, thus one Neutral but since I had 220 I tried for two. Creeping elegance got me.
tuning50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 04:27 PM   #12
Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,142
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuning50 View Post
He smiles an said, Besides both circuits should have their own Neutral per code.
Really news to me, I know in Canada this is okay and as far as I know in the USA it is alright.

Two problems that would cause this, the neutral from the panel being put on the plug instead of making a pigtail, this one does not seem to be the problem.

Possible if you have both hots on the same phase it may not like it, but I don't think that would cause any issues as long as the neutral is jointed in the first box.
darren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:12 AM   #13
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,550
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuning50 View Post
I asked my brother he said one of the GFCI doesn't like the minute change in resistance when the other is reset. His advice is to run separate neutrals back to the breaker box, but still use the common ground wire. He smiles an said, Besides both circuits should have their own Neutral per code.
Your brother doesn't know what he's talking about. There is no code requirement for separate neutrals. More importantly, the "minute chance in resistance" thing is BS and doesn't make sense from a physics perspective. At all. If your receptacles are wired properly (connections ONLY to the line side) and not defective, the symptoms you describe would not occur. Bottom line: nothing that happens upstream of a GFCI can trip the GFCI, and a GFCI with no load connection can never trip unless it is defective. Are you SURE you don't have one or more connections to the load terminals? Because that will cause exactly the symptoms you describe.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:47 AM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


Well I do now have only Neutral and Gnd on the load sides but pulled the red and black off the load sides to see if the symptoms went away they didn't. So How does a GFCI work? Isnt it a 500 milivolt sense between hot and ground and the relay trips?

Hmm since I have 3- 90 deg turns in 90 feet It was a tough pull for 2 hot #10s #12 neutral and #14 Gnd through 3/4 in conduit Now Im wondering if I have a nick in the hot side insulation somewhere and the conduit is wet. The PVC conduit had water and mud in it, I vacuumed it out but maybe a small rock pierced the insulation. I'm just grasping at straws. I think I'll try a new GFCI too.

Q: You can have 2 GFCIs in a quad box side by side cant you? I mean I've never torn a GFCI apart but theres not a magnetisim thing that could trip the other one is there?

I have a copper crush barrel thing joining 4 ground pigtails in the lower j box, I'll check again to see if summin is loose. Maybe a wirenut is better than a crush barrel thing for Gnd pigtails.

Hmm about the single Neutral, thinking about it, 4 12 romex is used for 220 all the time. If 2 Neutrals were code it would be a 5 12 red blk wht wht and gnd. Good point. Maybe my bro was thinking commercial code or installer best practice. IDK he nor I are sparkies.

Thanks

Last edited by tuning50; 09-29-2011 at 01:22 AM.
tuning50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 05:34 AM   #15
Electrician
 
SD515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area
Posts: 1,450
Rewards Points: 0
Default

220 volt circuit GFCI


A GFCI works by sensing imbalance between the hot and neutral, not hot and ground.

A proper circuit under load will always have an imbalance between hot and ground, as the ground isn’t carrying any current, the neutral is.

__________________
Kyle

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should
SD515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gfci Circuit howard.wheaton Electrical 10 01-29-2009 05:14 PM
new gfci on new circuit pops rtoni Electrical 39 11-15-2008 10:18 AM
20A GFCI on 15A circuit jheavner Electrical 35 10-16-2008 03:45 PM
hooking up dryer....bronx ny code SURFBUG Appliances 6 10-14-2008 09:41 PM
GFCI and Smoke alarm circuit issues 00u6166 Electrical 9 10-30-2007 02:41 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.