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-   -   20Amp Kitchen Split / Dual outlets (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/20amp-kitchen-split-dual-outlets-52620/)

WaldenL 09-09-2009 08:56 AM

20Amp Kitchen Split / Dual outlets
 
We're re-wiring the kitchen, don't even ask me what _was_ on the single circuit that used to be there, I think they got paid by the avg number of outlets per circuit! :laughing:

Anyway, I was thinking about wiring in the receptacles as split receptacles, that way the top and bottom of each would be on a different circuit; figured that adds to flexibility. However, I believe I cannot install a split across two different circuits (we're 2008 NEC) because you need to be able to kill them w/one breaker. However, can you feed two different receptacles in one box from two different circuits? I could put two receptacles in each box and achieve the same result.

This is a DIY job and a small kitchen, the added wire cost to pull 12/2 around the kitchen twice isn't a consideration.

Jim Port 09-09-2009 10:21 AM

The countertop circuits need to be GFI protected. A GFI receptacle will not allow the top and bottom to be split into 2 circuits.

You could just run your circuit A-B-A-B so that every other receptacle is on the other circuit.

The 08 requires at least 2 20 amp circuits for the kitchen to serve only the receptacles. No lighting allowed.

WaldenL 09-09-2009 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Port (Post 325649)
The countertop circuits need to be GFI protected. A GFI receptacle will not allow the top and bottom to be split into 2 circuits.

Good point. I guess 2x GFCI breakers would work, or some other funky way of wiring it would work (say split downstream from 2 non-split GFCI receptacles) but that just seems ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Port (Post 325649)
You could just run your circuit A-B-A-B so that every other receptacle is on the other circuit.

The 08 requires at least 2 20 amp circuits for the kitchen to serve only the receptacles. No lighting allowed.

Right. We'll likely do ABAB then, but there will be an A and a B in each box.


IIRC, there's nothing that says _all_ circuits must be 20, right? The refrigerator can be plugged into a 15, so long as there are 2x 20s for the counter top.

joed 09-09-2009 10:35 AM

GFCI is required for the kitchen and the only way to make a split GFCI is a GFCI breaker. When you see the cost of a double pole GFCI I think you will change your mind.

jbfan 09-09-2009 10:37 AM

I would not go to all that trouble. Run 2 circuits to the kitchen, then alternate the receptacle locations, so that no 2 circuits will be next to each other.

WaldenL 09-09-2009 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 325660)
I would not go to all that trouble. Run 2 circuits to the kitchen, then alternate the receptacle locations, so that no 2 circuits will be next to each other.

Not much trouble. We'd want double receptacles anyway, we've got them now, and are used to them. The way the layout is we'd be pulling both wires all the way around the kitchen anyway. So we're adding a couple of hooks on some screws in by doing this. (Wire into box, hook around screw, another hook around other screw on same side, wire out of box)

mike242424 09-09-2009 11:39 AM

i think just doing the ababab strategy is the best

spark plug 09-09-2009 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaldenL (Post 325631)
We're re-wiring the kitchen, don't even ask me what _was_ on the single circuit that used to be there, I think they got paid by the avg number of outlets per circuit! :laughing:

Anyway, I was thinking about wiring in the receptacles as split receptacles, that way the top and bottom of each would be on a different circuit; figured that adds to flexibility. However, I believe I cannot install a split across two different circuits (we're 2008 NEC) because you need to be able to kill them w/one breaker. However, can you feed two different receptacles in one box from two different circuits? I could put two receptacles in each box and achieve the same result.

This is a DIY job and a small kitchen, the added wire cost to pull 12/2 around the kitchen twice isn't a consideration.

What you CAN legally do (if you put each branch circuit on a separate Duplex receptacle) is run 3-wire into each 2-gang box. But be certain to connect each circuit on a different leg (in the panel). Ohterwise, you'll double the load on the NEUTRAL, instead of balancing it! (No matter what):yes::no::drink:Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!

Jim Port 09-09-2009 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spark plug (Post 325696)
What you CAN legally do (if you put each branch circuit on a separate Duplex receptacle) is run 3-wire into each 2-gang box. But be certain to connect each circuit on a different leg (in the panel). Ohterwise, you'll double the load on the NEUTRAL, instead of balancing it! (No matter what):yes::no::drink:Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!

How would you provide the required GFI protection on a shared neutral?

spark plug 09-09-2009 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Port (Post 325707)
How would you provide the required GFI protection on a shared neutral?

2-Pole GFCI Breaker. But as some other posters have suggested that the cost is prohibitive. IMHO. Not necessarily. If you're doing a project in your own home.(No matter what):yes::no::drink:don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!

220/221 09-09-2009 01:08 PM

Forget the split receps. Install double duplexes (two receps in a 2 gang box) with a separate circuit to each one. Definately use GFCI receps instead of breakers.

I'd lobby against a 3 wire home run for obvious (potential for disastor) reasons.

WaldenL 09-09-2009 03:35 PM

Unless someone comes up with a code reason not to, I think the final decision is to run two 12/2 runs to each box, and in each box install two duplex receps. Then in each location we'll have access to each circuit, but none of the receps will be split between two circuits. Thanks All!

jbfan 09-09-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaldenL (Post 325742)
Unless someone comes up with a code reason not to, I think the final decision is to run two 12/2 runs to each box, and in each box install two duplex receps. Then in each location we'll have access to each circuit, but none of the receps will be split between two circuits. Thanks All!

Not a code reason not too.
Are you coming from the panel with 2 12/2 also?
Put two gfci receptacles in the first box and go from there.

WaldenL 09-09-2009 04:25 PM

Was planning on coming w/2 12/2 to the first box. Putting GFCI in that box and wiring the rest as downstream from the gfci. Of course, I guess I could run 12/3 from the box to the first outlet and then split it to 2 runs of 12/2 from there. But seems simpler to run an extra 30' of 12/2 and just do them as distinct runs. Makes the box simpler too, as I don't have to tie the breakers together.

darren 09-10-2009 04:34 PM

So here is an idea that nobody would probably do but do you think the inspector would allow it.

If you were to put the GFI in a different area(i.e in the basement below the kitchen) or use a GFI breaker, then take a 20A Tslot plug and cut both sides for the top and bottom are seperate on the hot and neutral. Then run two 12/2 into the box, one from each GFI, this would give you GFI protection and two seperate circuits in one box.

What do you guys think, would this meet code?


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