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Old 05-22-2013, 10:52 AM   #16
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Jim... I agree that we should all have grounded circuits... but as curiosity because of my ignorence... how does code address extending an ungrounded circut.,,, or does it just say we shoulod not extend one.

Would a GFI suffice with a "no Eqip ground" label as applicable... or what about a ceiling light.

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Edit: Answers from me not necessarily based on the National Electrical Code ( local amendments and my guess may apply)
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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
That section only applies if two prong receptacles were being replaced. It does not apply to other applications like extending an ungrounded circuit.
Jim.... I guess the question would be: Does code prohibit extending an ungrounded circut either (or both) to a receptical or to a lighting fixture.?

(No one is saying it's good....although it was satisfactory prior to the 60's?)

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:53 AM   #17
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


We cross posted. Look at my response above yours.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:00 AM   #18
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


see if this is better
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #19
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see if this is better
Hammerline..... Don't mean to go off thread.... but how do you guys drawthis stuff.... or where can I go to find out. Is this site software or soe kind of drawing s/w you have.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:18 AM   #20
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


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Hammerline..... Don't mean to go off thread.... but how do you guys drawthis stuff.... or where can I go to find out. Is this site software or soe kind of drawing s/w you have.

I use microsoft paint program, Turn the canvas light gray and get to drawing using the line tool. For the devices I just save piictures and paste them in.
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #21
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Thank Ya Sir....... (For some reason I don't have my "Thanks" button on the screen)
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:41 AM   #22
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Heres the template I start with. Has many of the common devices on it already.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #23
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Sorry for the delay. Here is 250.130 regarding ungrounded extensions.

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch
Circuit Extensions.
The equipment grounding conductor
of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension
shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system
as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure
where the branch circuit for the receptacle or
branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor
within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar

within the service equipment enclosure


The new wiring needs to be grounded. Often times getting a ground back to one of the acceptable connections is a whole lot of work.
Okay, BUT ...

"The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension"

What about if we extend it with a 2-prong receptacle, which has no ground screw?
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:17 PM   #24
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


New wiring need to meet the current codes, so trying to extend the circuit for another 2 prong receptacle seems kind of counterproductive and does not seem to satify the code IMO.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:11 PM   #25
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
New wiring need to meet the current codes, so trying to extend the circuit for another 2 prong receptacle seems kind of counterproductive and does not seem to satify the code IMO.
Jim??

I think it may satisfy code because of what I quoted, and 250.130 seems to refer only to grounded type receptacles and circuits.

Quote:
(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.
As to counterproductive, the cost is less than running new circuit, or running an EGC back to the panel, if the existing is ungrounded.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #26
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


Code does seem to read that way....
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Code does seem to read that way....
Please explain this to me, as I'm real slow
Quote:
A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:49 PM   #28
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


An ungrounded 3 prong can be downstream of a GFI.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:40 PM   #29
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:04 PM   #30
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2 switches, working on same circuit HELP!!


What you are missing is that the article you are quoting is telling you how you can "pick up" a ground to legally extend an ungrounded circuit. You cannot extend an ungrounded circuit without providing a ground connected to one of those points.

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