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Old 01-15-2008, 05:40 PM   #46
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2 quick questions about recepticles


Arichard-
May I assume that your original question of "why not (2) grounding screws" could have included the statement...just like there are (2) hot and (2) neutral screws? The board clearly answered the question why not (2) grounds, but there is a reason why a receptacle has two screws for the other connections (break the tabs and have one side hot and one switched). As previously stated no good reason to have (2) grounds.

I do not believe the (2) screws (hot and neutral) are there to "make it easier to wire". The receptacle should not be used for circuit continuity rather a pigtail should always be used.

Probably dangerous to chime in on a "charged" topic, but I thought I would try. Btw, I am not a pro, just a homeowner.....so take it for what it's worth.

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Old 01-15-2008, 06:18 PM   #47
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2 quick questions about recepticles


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Originally Posted by steve1234 View Post

Probably dangerous to chime in on a "charged" topic, but I thought I would try. Btw, I am not a pro, just a homeowner.....so take it for what it's worth.

chime away. This is a fun website, bro.
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Old 01-15-2008, 06:31 PM   #48
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2 quick questions about recepticles


chiming.....
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:34 PM   #49
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2 quick questions about recepticles


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Originally Posted by steve1234 View Post
Arichard-

I do not believe the (2) screws (hot and neutral) are there to "make it easier to wire". The receptacle should not be used for circuit continuity rather a pigtail should always be used.

Sorry to burst your bubble but they ARE designed to carry the load, so pigtails serve no BETTER of a installation... you can if you want, but they are no better than using the two screws on the device, and I will tell you why, first off you probably never bothered to look up if using the screws were approved by the manufacture, and since they are that means they were passed by a UL listing, so who has the right to say that a UL tested piece of equipment is wrong?

And to really top it off, if it was such a dangerous installation, dont you think it would be a code violation NOT to make pig tails?

TESTING & CODE COMPLIANCE
• ULListed 498 (File #E-13399)
• CSA Certified where applicable
(File #LR-406)
• NOM Certified (#057)
• Meets or exceeds NEMA WD-1, and -
6, and ANSI standards
• Backed by a Limited 10-Year Warranty
5249-FBA & 5250
•Meets UL #498 requirements
•CSA Certified (#42)

Last edited by chris75; 01-15-2008 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:06 AM   #50
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2 quick questions about recepticles


So, why is it that the ground continuity MUST me maintained (even though chances are the cct would be off if a recepticle was removed) while the hot and neutral can be interupted?
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:23 AM   #51
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2 quick questions about recepticles


When you are working on a receptacle and see a bare wire in the box, you expect that wire to be a ground, not accidentally left unconnected to ground at a box upstream.

If a hot wire was accidentally left unconnected upstream, the results would at least be obvious and safe, no power.

If a neutral was left unconnected but the hot remained connected, the results might not be noticed until someone gets electrocuted, hence the special rules regarding pigtailing (mentioned earlier).

Long ago people expected metal boxes connected with metallic sheathed cable to be grounded, and some folks still do, but occasionally the electrical connection (bonding) is compromised due to looseness or oxidation.

Last edited by AllanJ; 01-16-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:02 PM   #52
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2 quick questions about recepticles


Chris-
Fine, let's beat up on the homeowner......my bubble has been officially burst...

kidding..nice quoting of the testing and compliance specs. Based on that, I will agree it's code compliant, and approved by the mfr. I will change my original statement to "my preference is to use pigtails, rather than the (2) sets of screws".

And again, take that for what it's worth. If anyone is not satisfied with this info, I will happily refund what you paid for it.........
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1234 View Post
Chris-
Fine, let's beat up on the homeowner......my bubble has been officially burst...

kidding..nice quoting of the testing and compliance specs. Based on that, I will agree it's code compliant, and approved by the mfr. I will change my original statement to "my preference is to use pigtails, rather than the (2) sets of screws".

And again, take that for what it's worth. If anyone is not satisfied with this info, I will happily refund what you paid for it.........
If you were paying me to wire your house, you wouldn't mind me using two screws vs pigtailing, It would save you ALOT of money... and thats the bottom line generally...

I'm glad you have a sense of humor also...
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:40 PM   #54
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2 quick questions about recepticles


Chris-
No doubt there....the pigtail option really is a pain in the arse and takes more time. I could easily see where the cost would dictate using all of those screws.

Of the little I know about electrical work, most of it I learned from my cousin (electrician) back in the day working on our first fixer upper. He is the one that told me "never use the recepticle for circuit continuity" Not a code thing rather a preference. It's one of the few things that stuck.

Now, another question: I've heard there is a "wire nut tool" that will twist the wires and tighten the wire nut. I've looked and cannot find anything. Is there such a commercially available tool? If so, is it worth it or stick with the pliers? It seems that the correct size deep socket attached to a power screw driver would do the trick. I tried it with an impact driver, but the wire nut tighten down a bit too far and the wires actually punched through the end of the wire nut. Maybe a little torque adjustment is needed . It was a bit clumsy, but seems like it might work ok once dialed in.

The other thing I've learned (reinforced during remodel time) if you loose your sense of humor, you might as well give up....
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:40 PM   #55
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2 quick questions about recepticles


Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1234 View Post
Chris-
No doubt there....the pigtail option really is a pain in the arse and takes more time. I could easily see where the cost would dictate using all of those screws.

Of the little I know about electrical work, most of it I learned from my cousin (electrician) back in the day working on our first fixer upper. He is the one that told me "never use the recepticle for circuit continuity" Not a code thing rather a preference. It's one of the few things that stuck.

Now, another question: I've heard there is a "wire nut tool" that will twist the wires and tighten the wire nut. I've looked and cannot find anything. Is there such a commercially available tool? If so, is it worth it or stick with the pliers? It seems that the correct size deep socket attached to a power screw driver would do the trick. I tried it with an impact driver, but the wire nut tighten down a bit too far and the wires actually punched through the end of the wire nut. Maybe a little torque adjustment is needed . It was a bit clumsy, but seems like it might work ok once dialed in.

The other thing I've learned (reinforced during remodel time) if you loose your sense of humor, you might as well give up....
Is this what you are asking about?
http://www.idealindustries.com/produ...nut_socket.jsp
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:45 PM   #56
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2 quick questions about recepticles


The brand of wire nuts I buy comes with the tool, I just throw em away, I never use anything but my hands to install wirenuts...
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:50 PM   #57
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2 quick questions about recepticles


jerry-
looks like it. I have actually never seen one, I just had a friend describe it. That does fit the description. thanks
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:46 PM   #58
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I have a few of these screwdrivers by Ideal- they have wirenut sockets in the heel of the screwdriver for convenience. They work well for me!


http://www.idealindustries.com/produ..._nutdriver.jsp
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:51 PM   #59
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A Pro's opinion only...........

Up to 5 14's i'll run the wire nut on and go by feel. 3 and more 12's I'll go ahead and pretwist. This is based on making thousands of "taps".

In my humble opinion, All Diy'ers should buy linemens and pretwist. This is the safest bet.

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