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01-13-2008, 12:51 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 682
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75
umm buddy, try reading the code, you CAN install a SINGLE 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp Individual branch circuit, read 210.21(B)(1) and tell me that you cannot!!!
210.21(B)(3) is for two or more receptacles or outlets, I dont know why guys have a hard time with this section... a duplex would fall under two or more receptacles, a single round receptacle would not!
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First you are reading this all wrong. Read the references I posted.
Second your original statement was that you could put a 20 amp rec on a 15 amp circuit. Now your defence has to do with a 15 amp rec on a 20 amp circuit.
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Master Electrician
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01-13-2008, 01:11 PM
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#17
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Electrician philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhite
"Please understand the code before shouting out wrongful information." 
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That made my entire weekend. This thread is awesome.
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01-13-2008, 04:36 PM
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75
umm buddy, try reading the code, you CAN install a SINGLE 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp Individual branch circuit, read 210.21(B)(1) and tell me that you cannot!!!
210.21(B)(3) is for two or more receptacles or outlets, I dont know why guys have a hard time with this section... a duplex would fall under two or more receptacles, a single round receptacle would not!
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210.21(B)1
A single receptacle on an individual branch circuit must have an ampacity not less than the rating of the overcurrent protection device.
Last edited by jerryh3; 01-13-2008 at 06:09 PM.
Reason: Mistake
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01-13-2008, 05:20 PM
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#19
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Power Gen/RS Engineer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 695
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryh3
210.21(B)1
A single receptacle on an individual branch circuit must have an ampacity not less than the rating of the overcurrent protection device[sic].
Why are YOU having such a hard time understanding this??
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Actually, it reads " not less than that of the branch circuit."
Anyway, in post #15, JV mentioned 20A breaker, 12 AWG. wire. What is there not to understand? If it's a duplex, it can be 15A but a duplex is not a single receptacle.
Am I missing something? Buehler?
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The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves,"You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." - George Carlin
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01-13-2008, 06:02 PM
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#20
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Electrician
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Lets end the confusion right here...
Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit shall have an ampre rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
20a single receptacle good on a 15 amp branch circuit...
20 amp receptacle is not less than 15amp circuit correct?
and yes I screwed up post #13, sorry for the confusion. I did add an edit for those following along at home... 
Now, this may be a bad design, but its not a code violation...
Last edited by chris75; 01-13-2008 at 06:34 PM.
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01-13-2008, 06:17 PM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Confusion is over. All is good. Peace is restored. Andy, glad it could be entertainment.
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01-13-2008, 06:22 PM
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#22
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Electrician
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
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2 quick questions about recepticles
I know its hard to understand the logic that a 20 amp device be installed on a 15 amp circuit, but there is no safety hazard.
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01-13-2008, 07:42 PM
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#23
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Electrician philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
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2 quick questions about recepticles
The NEC is not nor will ever be a safety manual. Put a single 20A recp on a 15A branch circuit in the ATL and you will be red tagged. Maybe I'm confused.  
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01-13-2008, 07:55 PM
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#24
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Electrician
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy in ATL
The NEC is not nor will ever be a safety manual. Put a single 20A recp on a 15A branch circuit in the ATL and you will be red tagged. Maybe I'm confused. |
Would you like to share why you think this would be a problem? Yes I agree its a bad design, but its not a safety issue... So lets say you do happen to own the one item that actually is a 20 amp cord, the worst case scenario is that the OCP trips...
And unless your state has a amendment saying to disregard 210.21(B)(1), then you have inspectors making up their own rules. 
Last edited by chris75; 01-13-2008 at 07:58 PM.
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01-13-2008, 08:06 PM
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#25
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Electrician philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Table210.21(b)3
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01-13-2008, 08:11 PM
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#26
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Electrician
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy in ATL
Table210.21(b)3
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Why does everyone keep going to that table? It is ONLY for two or more receptacles...  Read 210.21 (B)(3), and for the last time try reading 210.21 (B)(1), now there may be some confusion with what a duplex receptacle and a single receptacle is, i'm not sure, but it is all spelled out.
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01-13-2008, 08:12 PM
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#27
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy in ATL
Table210.21(b)3
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That table is for multiple receptacle circuits.
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01-13-2008, 08:23 PM
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#28
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Electrician philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lilburn, GA
Posts: 838
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris75
Why does everyone keep going to that table? It is ONLY for two or more receptacles... Read 210.21 (B)(3), and for the last time try reading 210.21 (B)(1), now there may be some confusion with what a duplex receptacle and a single receptacle is, i'm not sure, but it is all spelled out. |
Andy is straight up wrong. I concede this code debate to Chris. Bad design? Yes... Code violation? I'm thinking not. Well played 
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01-13-2008, 08:27 PM
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#29
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Electrician
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Connecticut, Litchfield
Posts: 2,015
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2 quick questions about recepticles
Everyone has to remember that the NEC is pretty much minimum, and a breaker tripping is really not a safety concern, maybe an inconvenience, but it will not start your house on fire. I hope everyone understands the exceptions to this code, and if you do not PLEASE ask...
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01-13-2008, 08:27 PM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
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2 quick questions about recepticles
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