Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-07-2008, 06:33 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Share |
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Hi,

I tried to get creative with my two outlet circuts for the kitchen... so I ran a 12-3 through the kitchen wired the top terminal black and bottom red, (breaking off the hot side tab on the receptalce, but leaving nuetral connected) at the first box in the line, I put a GFI into the black were circut, in the second box in the line I put a GFI in the red circut... but I 2 GFI sharing one nuetral doesn't work... What can I do?!? Is there a double pole GFI breaker that I can put in the panel and service both circuits?


Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your comments on the problem I made myself.

Rob

moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 08:49 PM   #2
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


you can wire two different g.f.i. circuits sharing a neutral but where you enter your first box you must run seperate 12/2 to the other branch circuits.if you can not re-wire and all else fails you can make the first box the wire comes into a dedicated g.f.i. and the rest of the circuit would be on another g.f.i. in the next box where the wire runs to after it leaves the first box.just a suggestion,if it even makes since.


Last edited by eslbl; 12-07-2008 at 08:56 PM.
eslbl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 08:52 PM   #3
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,785
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


There is NO WAY to make this work with GFI devices. You MUST use a 2-pole GFI breaker, unless you want to replace all the wiring you just did.
Yes, 2-pole GFI breakers are available.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:09 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,867
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Three wire (shared neutral) cable to first box. First box has a GFCI receptacle unit with both top and bottom receptacles fed off the black hot conductor. A cable continues to second box.

At first box neutrals for both cables are wire nutted together with a single pigtail to connect to the line side of the GFCI. Nothing is connected to the load side of this GFCI although a separate 12-2 cable may be connected there in the future to feed other things.

At second box GFCI receptacle there has both top and bottom fed off the hot conductor connected to the red over at the first box.

If there is a third box, the receptacle there can be an ordinary one with both top and bottom protected by the GFCI in the second box. If you choose this method and had a 3 wire cable from box #2, then the black conductor becomes superfluous and useless, and the red and white are connected to the load side of GFCI #2.

GFCI's to put in your breaker panel cost a lot more than those with receptacles to install in outlet boxes.

Last edited by AllanJ; 12-07-2008 at 09:23 PM.
AllanJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:15 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Thanks Speedy! That's what I thought. Thank goodness it's not the big deal I thought it was going to be when I wired up the two GFI receptacles and they didn't work. Just a little more money on a the breaker I guess. I wonder how the cost of 2 lengths of 12-2 and two GFI's, compares with the cost of one length of 12-3 and a breaker

Thanks again.

Ciao,

Rob
moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:30 PM   #6
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,363
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Quote:
Originally Posted by moondog111 View Post
.... Just a little more money on a the breaker I guess.... I wonder how the cost of 2 lengths of 12-2 and two GFI's, compares with the cost of one length of 12-3 and a breaker .....
Ahem .... a LOT more $$$ using that 2-pole GFI breaker. Much cheaper to use separate GFI receptacles at each outlet, using standard breakers.

Simply pigtail your desired hot (black or red) and neutral at each outlet, and use a GFCI receptacle as a stand alone unit. Each outlet will have its own trip and test buttons.

Still cheaper than using that 2 pole GFI breaker.
kbsparky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:51 PM   #7
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,785
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Ahem .... a LOT more $$$ using that 2-pole GFI breaker. Much cheaper to use separate GFI receptacles at each outlet, using standard breakers.

Simply pigtail your desired hot (black or red) and neutral at each outlet, and use a GFCI receptacle as a stand alone unit. Each outlet will have its own trip and test buttons.

Still cheaper than using that 2 pole GFI breaker.
Sure, IF you want GFI receptacles all over the place. For the modest cost difference I'll take a GFI breaker.
Besides, GFI's are like $15 now. Six of them equal a 2-pole GFI breaker. I'm sure there are more than six receptacles on these two circuits.
What is the actual cost savings using a GFI at each location? Nothing.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:52 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


really 15 GFI's will be cheaper then 1 GFI breaker?
moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:59 PM   #9
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,363
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Depends on how good a deal you can find this stuff. 3 pak GFCI receptacles routinely sell for less than $20. 5 of those would be less than $100.

2-pole GFCI breakers are $120 or more depending on brand and the deal you can get at the supplier.
kbsparky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:00 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


oops more then 15... I forgot the island... I'm thinking you are right on the money (pun) Speedy! Guess one could do individual GFI's for the first bunch on one circut and then run one from there on for the rest on the other circut. ??? Beyond the money for the breaker... changing a breaker is quicker replacing all those outlets and I have company coming for x-mas with only 4 of the 30 cabinets hung

Ciao,

Rob
moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:18 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 40
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


understand that a 2 pole GFI breaker is some pretty big $$. You are probably going to want to run 2 strands of 12-2 and split the neutral before any of the GFI's. Here is a 2 pole GFI for ya

http://www.overniteelectricsupply.co...asp?ProdID=660
joey b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:18 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Ouch! A quick google search turned up a Homeline 2pole 2amp gfi for $158 ... more $ then I thought. Where can I buy one for like $75?
moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:31 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Alexandria VA
Posts: 30
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Thanks but no thanks, Joey. I was worreid about having to do that, but standing here looking at all my new drywall I have to say no!

What's up with the the GFI's? Is China making the recepticles and US Auto making the breakers!!! (sorry if I offended anyone)

Seriously, thanks for everyone's help.

Rob
moondog111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 05:22 AM   #14
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,785
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Depends on how good a deal you can find this stuff. 3 pak GFCI receptacles routinely sell for less than $20. 5 of those would be less than $100.
Can you please point to a link or store name where you can get name brand quality GFIs for this price?
The best I could do was $28 for three at a big box store. Even they recently went up to over $30. GFI's have gone up lately if you haven't noticed. The days of the $8 GFI are long gone. Unless of course you buy Chinese crap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Depends on how good a deal you can find this stuff. 3 pak GFCI receptacles routinely sell for less than $20. 5 of those would be less than $100.

2-pole GFCI breakers are $120 or more depending on brand and the deal you can get at the supplier.
Sorry, I don't consider $20 and the hassle of having to replace ALL the devices "much cheaper". Maybe it's just me.


To those who keep suggesting new ways to wire the circuit, can you please remember that Moon has clearly stated that the circuit is wired already and he is looking for ways to make it work.


Moon, depending on your panel brand, here is a "generic" version of a 2p20 GFI breaker: http://www.electricsupplyonline.com/...gf_w002353.php
A Homeline is around $129 on that site.

A 2-pole 20A GFI Breaker will run you around $120 anywhere you go.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 07:30 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,867
Default

2 GFI's 1 nuetral?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
The days of the $8 GFI are long gone. Unless of course you buy Chinese crap.
Oops, I was relying on using $8. GFCI's. So scratch my idea above. Actually the main point of my idea was to not break the tab to split the top and bottom half of a duplex receptacle. This way the first several (not necessarily all) locations could have individual GFCI's using the existing wiring and with the last few locations on the same side of the line protected by the last GFCI.

xx


Last edited by AllanJ; 12-08-2008 at 08:15 AM.
AllanJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Use a shared nuetral or not? That is the question. Cyndi Electrical 16 05-23-2008 02:59 PM
Nuetral from feeder cable to main panel question? TW Lucas Electrical 14 05-08-2008 11:33 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.