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Old 01-02-2008, 08:36 PM   #16
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2 100 amp services in a barn


Thanks for clarifying that HH.
I'm curious as to why they have to be ran separately like that. Is it due to the wires bound too close together causing heating issues?
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:19 PM   #17
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2 100 amp services in a barn


This seems like a lot of expense to have endless hot water in a woodshop.

Why not keep the 100 amp panel you've got in the barn, and install a 10g hot water heater under the sink, like every furniture shop I've ever worked in? It'll require a single 30A breaker, and you'll be able to keep all the wire you've already got buried.

The machinery you've mentioned will have plenty of power with a 100A service. That 5 hp cabinet saw will only draw about 15 amps.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:21 PM   #18
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2 100 amp services in a barn


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Originally Posted by HouseHelper View Post
If run in conduit, you would run 6 individual THWN hots and one ground. That would apply if using metal or PVC.

Maticus: You cannot run two 8/3 runs to feed this heater. You will need three runs of 8/2 or six individual wires as stated above.
That's what I thought, but Stubbie's post saying each breaker needed it's own ground went against that.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:35 PM   #19
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2 100 amp services in a barn


Nate, the reason is that I'm going to be living in it while I build my timber frame house. So I need the water heater for a shower and sink. I built on to my barn this summer, changing it from a 30'x40' to a 40'x45'. I didn't realize a H2O heater would draw so much current. So it looks like I have to upgrade...
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:44 PM   #20
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2 100 amp services in a barn


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That's what I thought, but Stubbie's post saying each breaker needed it's own ground went against that.
Yeah, well sometimes Stubbies fingers don't always say what his brain is thinking. He draws real nice though.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:03 PM   #21
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2 100 amp services in a barn


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Nate, the reason is that I'm going to be living in it while I build my timber frame house. So I need the water heater for a shower and sink. I built on to my barn this summer, changing it from a 30'x40' to a 40'x45'. I didn't realize a H2O heater would draw so much current. So it looks like I have to upgrade...

Hate to rain on ya again but how big the timberframe house it will be ??

The reason why i mention that because you allready plan having on demand waterheater which it will take pretty good protion of your electrical system.

if this on demand waterheater is on gaz fired that will be fine you will have no issue but you want electric on demand WH so it will change some thing around and let me suggest a idea here.,,

if you going to put that instat waterheater at the perment location what you can do is get 125 A breaker [ after you install 200 amp or larger box in which i rather be on safe side because i dont know how big and how fancy you will put in the house ] and run with 1/0 wire to new subfeed box there from there you can put 3 - 40 amp breakers there with short run of #8's and that will serve a disconnection switch.

if you like this idea let us know but really IMO you should do the load demand being the house you are putting up and the numbers of tools you have in "shed" you can goggle " Load Demand " it will guide you some idea what you will need to do with this

a side note along the way if your local/ state code are on 02 or 05 it will be not too bad [ bedroom circuits reqired AFCI that time ] but get into 08 that will change a bit so check out your local / state office for latest info for code change along the way

Merci, Marc

P.S. dont think about paralleling both exsting UG wires at all [ too small and will not meet the code anyway ]
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:32 PM   #22
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2 100 amp services in a barn


Marc,
I like your idea of getting a 125 A breaker and run with 1/0 wire to a new subfeed box there and put 3 - 40 amp breakers there with short run of #8's and that will serve a disconnection switch.

I will take back my 8/3 wire tomorrow since I won't be using it now.

I really appreciate all the responses I've been getting from you guys!
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:51 PM   #23
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2 100 amp services in a barn


Jerryh3

I went back to that post and corrected the confusing part. I'm sorry it was worded so poorly. I have a bit on my table these days and have been in and out this evening not having time to make my usual long winded posts...

HH is right sometimes my fingers don't say what I am thinking. What I was saying is that if he does like the diagram shows he will being using cable and will have have 3 ground wires to land at the heater metal housing. If he uses conduit he will only need to run one ground wire. If it is metal conduit he can use the conduit but it still would be better to run a ground wire. These large amp heaters are normally done with a conduit run as three #8 cables make it a pain in the rear and it looks god awful.

Last edited by Stubbie; 01-02-2008 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 01-03-2008, 01:01 AM   #24
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2 100 amp services in a barn


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I'm curious as to why they have to be ran separately like that. Is it due to the wires bound too close together causing heating issues?
No... you are only allowed 48 amps on a single circuit to any appliance resistive heating load. Since this heater has a total of 120 amps resistive load it is required to be sub divided into loads equal to or less than 48 amps. In this case that equates to three 40 amp circuits.

The diagram shows 3 separate runs of 8/2 G copper cable thats why there are 3 ground wires shown and by the way this is the factory diagram not one that I drew up.
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Old 01-03-2008, 11:32 AM   #25
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2 100 amp services in a barn


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Nate, the reason is that I'm going to be living in it while I build my timber frame house. So I need the water heater for a shower and sink. I built on to my barn this summer, changing it from a 30'x40' to a 40'x45'. I didn't realize a H2O heater would draw so much current. So it looks like I have to upgrade...
Why not just get a 40g tank heater then? It'll take a 25 or 30 amp breaker, and you'll be all set in the barn with the electric service you've got.

If you like the endless water of the on-demand heater, save that for your timberframe house. You'll need to run an upgraded service to that house anyways, so you can size it to accomodate this beast of an electric water heater. It's gonna cost you hundreds or even a thousand dollars in materials, and all your time too. You should spend your time getting started on that timberframe instead, 'cause your wife's gonna get tired of living in the barn!

I just can't see the point of rewiring your barn just to install this ridiculous water heater for temporary living. 100A would be plenty for a large woodworking shop, AND living space.

Last edited by NateHanson; 01-03-2008 at 11:35 AM.
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