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Old 05-03-2009, 01:25 PM   #16
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


I just cannot see how a service lateral is the HO's responsibility. What if you had a pole mounted XFMR. Are you supposed to run that lateral? You cannot access their XFMR. On the ground or 30 feet in the air.
Or, do they do the work, then charge you for the materials and labor? I know every jurisdiction is different, but this is a bunch of you know what!

Are they saying you must do it, or are they saying you must pay for it? Because you CANNOT do it. Period.

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Old 05-03-2009, 01:47 PM   #17
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Here I had to pay an electrician to run the wire
Then the POCO hooked the wire up to the pole
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Old 05-03-2009, 01:54 PM   #18
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
I just cannot see how a service lateral is the HO's responsibility.
It sounds as if they make you responsible for it, not that you are actively expected to repair it!

In my area of PA, we are responsible to keep our sidewalks free of breaks and root damage for someone tripping although it is the rule that the county owns the pavement! Same goes for the water line from the neighborhood trunk line to your house before the meter- The homeowner is responsible.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:34 AM   #19
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


The way I understand it, with Dakota Electric it is my responsibility as the customer/homeowner to upgrade the meter can, and underground service lateral up to the transformer. Whether that be done by me or by an electrician its my responsibility. They would have to take care of disconnecting the old lines and connecting the new lines once its inspected. If I was with Xcel Energy, they take care of everything up to the meter can.

We measured the distance to the transformer and its about 120' and I found Menards sells the 4/0 4/0 2/0 alluminum for $2.47/ft which is not that bad, and at 120' thats about $296.40 though i'd certaintly get a few extra feet just to be sure I have enough, nothing like being a few feet short on a run that long.

I told the inspector that I talked to the power company about doing a "panel replacement" and they said "go ahead" and he said that "they will shut you down if the service doesn't match the service latteral." I tried to convince him that the poco said ok (even though they didn't, haha) but he basically said the panel has to match the ungerground latteral, though I could go smaller (but why???).

I think at this point, I am going to buy the 150 amp main breaker for this QO load center I have (I found a new in box never used breaker on eBay), and then when I go to do the 200 amp upgrade later, I will already have a 200 amp breaker to put back in the panel and only have to change the service latteral up to the panel. I certaintly don't want to buy any breakers for this FPE panel.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:46 AM   #20
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Well do you really need 200 amps?

People are using more computers and electronics, but at the same time, CFL lights and more efficient appliances are reducing other areas of energy usage.... so really you may not need a lot more capacity in the future.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:52 AM   #21
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Well I am a holiday lighting enthusiast and one year I setup 37,000 lights that took 120 amps worth of power. I managed to trip the 100 amp main breaker at my parents place a couple times while I was balancing loads out. Problem was I balanced it out on the holiday lights subpanel but was out of balance on the main panel and tripped the main breaker. I'd like to be able to do the holiday lights at my new house without having to worry about tripping the main breaker again.

And for the record, I HATE CFL's! Florescents are "ok" for the garage and workshop areas, but for everyday living I prefer incandescents or halogens.
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:26 AM   #22
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Try the higher "K" value CFL's
Normal CFL's are around 3000K light spectrum
Then they have around 4,000LK lights
I bought (blue pkg) Daylight CFL bulbs at Home Depot - very nice
I then found Bright effects 6500K bulbs at Lowes - even better!!

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Old 05-04-2009, 11:41 AM   #23
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


You won't have a choice. Incandescent lights are banned. 100 watts is banned in 2012 and down through 40 watts in 2014.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:17 PM   #24
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Actually they aren't banned, they are required to be more efficient
They did come out with a new incandescent that meets the new requirements
But they opted to drop the technology & instead concentrate on the next technology LED & OLED

http://www.geconsumerproducts.com/pr...E_lamps_07.htm
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:15 PM   #25
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Here I had to pay an electrician to run the wire
Then the POCO hooked the wire up to the pole
Did the electrician just leave enough on the ground for them to reach the xfmr? Just leave a few sticks of PVC for them too? Maybe a few 1 hole straps too? Then I think I get it, but?

A licensed electrician or contractor is usually not allowed to climb a power pole and has no ability to access a ground mounted transformer.
Even if you must provide the lateral, who installs the conduit to the side of the pole and pulls the wire up to the transformer? Who opens up the transformer on the ground and gets his conductors in there? Only the POCO can climb the pole, install the conduit to the side of it, or open up the ground mounted transformer.

Thats like saying run a conduit from point A to point B, but you cannot access point A.

The only way this lateral can be installed and be his responsibility is for the POCO to install it and then he pays for it.

I could understand if the service were overhead. Then he could build a mast and leave the SE conductors hanging for the POCO to connect. But underground it would be impossible unless electricians are allowed to work on/in/around POCO equipment.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:58 PM   #26
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Ok, looking to finally swap out my panel this week, have a few last minute questions regarding the swap.

Main questions are regarding the ground of the new panel. I am installing 2 5/8" ground rods outside with the inentions on upgrading to a 200 amp service later. Can I just run this ground wire through this 4" hole where the A/C compressor lines and CATV line run through, or does it need to be protected as the wire passes through the wall (hole will be filled in once work has been completed)? What is the preferred/required way to route the ground wires from the water pipe bond and the ground rods into the panel? Just puch a knockout and run the wires through or does there need to be some sort of a gromet or conduit bushing for the wires to pass through?

Also, I will be replacing the wire that runs to the water pipe bond as the old wire is a 4 gauge aluminum wire that appears to be oxidized (no compund used prior?). I would like to change this wire to copper and want to make sure its adequate for a furture upgrade to 200 amp service. Is 6 gauge copper adequate or does this water pipe bond need to be larger?

Wet Bar outlets that will be GFCI and in a family room area, do these need to be AFCI protected as well? I assume the bathroom circuit is fine on a standard breaker as long as the outlet is GFCI protected correct?

Lastly, I am installing 2 - 15 amp AFCI circuit breakers for 2 circuits that have been altered/installed and one of these circuits happens to include the hard-wired smoke detectors. I know you can't put the hard-wired smoke detectors on a GFCI circut but will they work on an AFCI circuit or will I be experiencing issues with this?

I am looking to have the POCO disconnect on Tuesday afternoon with an inspection on Wednesday morning this week, so hopefully everything goes well and as planned....
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:13 PM   #27
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Did the electrician just leave enough on the ground for them to reach the xfmr? Just leave a few sticks of PVC for them too? Maybe a few 1 hole straps too? Then I think I get it, but?

A licensed electrician or contractor is usually not allowed to climb a power pole and has no ability to access a ground mounted transformer.
Even if you must provide the lateral, who installs the conduit to the side of the pole and pulls the wire up to the transformer? Who opens up the transformer on the ground and gets his conductors in there? Only the POCO can climb the pole, install the conduit to the side of it, or open up the ground mounted transformer.

Thats like saying run a conduit from point A to point B, but you cannot access point A.

The only way this lateral can be installed and be his responsibility is for the POCO to install it and then he pays for it.

I could understand if the service were overhead. Then he could build a mast and leave the SE conductors hanging for the POCO to connect. But underground it would be impossible unless electricians are allowed to work on/in/around POCO equipment.
Wire was required to be run inside a 10' galvy conduit, Enough slack was left for the POCO to make the connections on the pole
POCO requirements, not mine or the Inspectors
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:40 AM   #28
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Well I ended up getting about 50' of the insulated THWN 6 gauge green grounding wire. Re-strung the ground to the water pipe bonding both before and after the meter with new grounding lugs (previously there was only one lug before the meter). Drove 2 8' 5/8" ground rods at about 7' apart, connected them with another run of the 6guage THWN wire, fed through the previously mentioned 4" hole.

POCO will be out today to disconnect power at my house at 3pm, with hopes of completing everything and passing a final inspection tomorrow morning.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:52 AM   #29
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
Well I ended up getting about 50' of the insulated THWN 6 gauge green grounding wire. Re-strung the ground to the water pipe bonding both before and after the meter with new grounding lugs (previously there was only one lug before the meter). Drove 2 8' 5/8" ground rods at about 7' apart, connected them with another run of the 6guage THWN wire, fed through the previously mentioned 4" hole.

POCO will be out today to disconnect power at my house at 3pm, with hopes of completing everything and passing a final inspection tomorrow morning.
Let us know what happens.. I'm in Farmington and am looking at replacing my overhead with an underground line. I currently have a 100amp setup and would like to get a 200amp underground. My run is also about 125', so I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of your situation .. GoodLuck
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:43 AM   #30
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150amp to 200amp service upgrade...


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. . . then he could build a mast and leave the SE conductors hanging for the POCO to connect. But underground it would be impossible unless electricians are allowed to work on/in/around POCO equipment.
In my case, POCO told me to stop 2' short of the transformer with my trench and they would take it from there. Out here, they also provide the wire from the meter can to their transformer.

So for my upgrade, I chose to put 3" PVC conduit from the meter socket to their transformer so that I would never have to tear up the yard or patio if new wire had to be pulled. (I plan on doing concrete stamping over the area where the trench was.) The conduit cost me around $100.

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