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-   -   12-2 for 240v ? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/12-2-240v-188217/)

1dumbquestion 10-07-2013 06:43 PM

12-2 for 240v ?
 
Hey all, I'm installing a Cadet 240v heater in a bathroom I'm remodeling and I was planning on running 12-3 but I see on their site recommending 12-2. Is it common practice to run 2 instead of 3 for a 240v load when the load doesn't account for a neutral and a ground? Thanks, 1

gregzoll 10-07-2013 06:45 PM

That would be because it is just two hots and a ground. Wire per manufacturer instructions. If you do pull 12/3, just cap off the White Neutral wire on both ends, use the Red & Black for the hots.

wirenut1110 10-07-2013 06:45 PM

Yes, 12/2 is fine, just re-identify the white wire with some black tape or something.

1dumbquestion 10-07-2013 06:58 PM

Great, thanks for the info. I've got another question on a close topic.

I just moved my dryer to another room and ran 10-3 from the original box to the new one in the next room. The run from the panel to the box is a stranded wire that looks like about an 8ga 3 wire so I just wire nutted the stranded ground with the neutral and ground wire of the 10-3. my question is can I just leave that connection in an accessible box or should I run a new run from the panel to the dryer outlet? Thanks again, 1

tfo411 10-07-2013 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1dumbquestion (Post 1250760)
Great, thanks for the info. I've got another question on a close topic.

I just moved my dryer to another room and ran 10-3 from the original box to the new one in the next room. The run from the panel to the box is a stranded wire that looks like about an 8ga 3 wire so I just wire nutted the stranded ground with the neutral and ground wire of the 10-3. my question is can I just leave that connection in an accessible box or should I run a new run from the panel to the dryer outlet? Thanks again, 1

DO NOT join the neutral with ground. If this is just a junction box to extend a circuit, it will be red to red, black to black, white to white and ground to ground.
Make sure you wrap one of the grounds around the screw at the back of the box.

Ideally you run a 10/3 right from the panel to the dryer receptacle but if that's not an option, the junction box must remain accessible.

Edit: Also make sure that #10 is sufficient for your dryer. Ive personally never seen one requiring #8 but you want to make sure. What size is the breaker?

1dumbquestion 10-07-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfo411 (Post 1250775)
DO NOT join the neutral with ground. If this is just a junction box to extend a circuit, it will be red to red, black to black, white to white and ground to ground.
Make sure you wrap one of the grounds around the screw at the back of the box.

Ideally you run a 10/3 right from the panel to the dryer receptacle but if that's not an option, the junction box must remain accessible.

Edit: Also make sure that #10 is sufficient for your dryer. Ive personally never seen one requiring #8 but you want to make sure. What size is the breaker?


The breaker is a 30A but honestly I didn't see what the dryer recommends I just went off of what is normal for dryers. It's one of those new fancy LG's that the ladies likes so I'd better make sure. The existing wire from the panel to the original box only has 2 wires plus a ground and they are all stranded with the ground being loose so I can't really nut white to white. I was hoping to avoid it but maybe I better step up and just replace from the panel. Thanks, 1

oleguy74 10-07-2013 07:40 PM

10-3 from panel is best.

TarheelTerp 10-07-2013 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1dumbquestion (Post 1250785)
The breaker is a 30A...

How many OTHER electric baseboard heaters do you have?
How many are on the same circuit as this unit?

tfo411 10-07-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1250794)
How many OTHER electric baseboard heaters do you have?
How many are on the same circuit as this unit?

The breaker question was in regards to his dryer.

#10 is good on a 30A breaker. Running a new 10/3 from the panel to the dryer is the way to go.

1dumbquestion 10-07-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1250794)
How many OTHER electric baseboard heaters do you have?
How many are on the same circuit as this unit?


my fault for mixing topics: The 30A is dedicated to the dryer and I'm running a new 20A dedicated to the new cadet heater. Sorry for the confusion, 1

tfo411 10-07-2013 07:55 PM

I should add to my last post about your dryer...The current setup is a safety concern and should be addressed as soon as possible.

mpoulton 10-07-2013 09:27 PM

If your old dryer circuit was 3-wire (no ground), you cannot extend it. Historically the code allowed 3-wire circuits for stoves and dryers, with the chassis of the appliance being bonded to the neutral wire. This is no longer allowed, and has not been for years. It is a significant safety hazard. If you want to move your old 3-wire dryer, you will need to run a new 4-wire circuit from the panel.

1dumbquestion 10-09-2013 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpoulton (Post 1250851)
If your old dryer circuit was 3-wire (no ground), you cannot extend it. Historically the code allowed 3-wire circuits for stoves and dryers, with the chassis of the appliance being bonded to the neutral wire. This is no longer allowed, and has not been for years. It is a significant safety hazard. If you want to move your old 3-wire dryer, you will need to run a new 4-wire circuit from the panel.

So I'll be running a new 10-3 tonight to replace my old and my temp wire I've had up for the last week or so. I've got a question (and it may seem stupid) but what is the concern with nutting the ground and neutral together in a box? I ask this because when I run the new wire the neutral and the ground will be screwed to a shared buss in my 40 year old panel essentially doing the same thing. Am I missing something major? I'm all ears. Thanks, 1

mpoulton 10-10-2013 01:39 AM

What happens if the connection of the neutral and grounds comes loose, or the shared neutral/ground wire gets cut or damaged? Electrified dryer frame. Not good. What happens if, on a 4-wire circuit, the neutral or ground connection in the panel comes loose? Not a disaster, it just doesn't work right or loses grounding. The hazard of the chassis becoming electrified from a loose neutral is eliminated by running the ground back to the panel bus separately from the neutral.


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