110V From 220v Pump Circuit - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2011, 09:40 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


I am installing a 220v well pump, and have a 110V clorine injector that needs to run at the same time the pump is running.

I was thinkng of using a transformer to step down from 220v to 110v, but it would seem easier to run 4 wire cable for the 22OV, use the red and black for the 2 sides of the 220V (plus ground), and then connect to the black on the pressure switch to switch on the injector, while connecting the white neutral thu to the injector.

Apparently this is how some dryers run both 220v and 110v from a single 4 wire 220v line. I just wanted to be certain I wasn't overlooking anything. Somewhere I read that the breaker for the 220v will detect a difference in load between the 2- feed lines and thus be a problem.

Thanks,

Advertisement

DBachman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2011, 10:10 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Using a 4-wire circuit is the best procedure for this. Be sure to use a 2-pole breaker, and 2-pole disconnect switch at the pump house.

Advertisement

__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 07:47 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Doesn't a breaker for 220V have to be 2 pole anyway? what else would it be to get current for 2 live poles?

Pump pressure switches are 2 pole for the 220V pump, but it would only be the one side that I then attach thwe 110V injector.
DBachman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 08:23 AM   #4
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,228
Rewards Points: 2,366
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by DBachman View Post
Doesn't a breaker for 220V have to be 2 pole anyway? what else would it be to get current for 2 live poles?
Some people have been known to use 2 single pole breakers to supply a 240 volt load. It will work but it is wrong.
__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 03:32 PM   #5
Member
 
Code05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Easton MD
Posts: 1,841
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
Some people have been known to use 2 single pole breakers to supply a 240 volt load. It will work but it is wrong.
Perfectly legal if the breakers have a handle tie between them.

240.15(2) Grounded Single-Phase Alternating-Current Circuits.
In grounded systems, individual single-pole circuit
breakers rated 120/240 volts ac, with identified handle ties,
shall be permitted as the protection for each ungrounded
conductor for line-to-line connected loads for single-phase
circuits.
Code05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 04:33 PM   #6
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,228
Rewards Points: 2,366
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
Perfectly legal if the breakers have a handle tie between them.

240.15(2) Grounded Single-Phase Alternating-Current Circuits.
In grounded systems, individual single-pole circuit
breakers rated 120/240 volts ac, with identified handle ties,
shall be permitted as the protection for each ungrounded
conductor for line-to-line connected loads for single-phase
circuits.
Some people have been known to use 2 single pole breakers to supply a 240 volt load without a handle tie or non-adjacent breakers. It will work but it is wrong.

Don't you think for the average DIYer on this forum it is better to say use a 2 pole breaker fro 240 volt circuits that get involved with handle ties?
__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 04:50 PM   #7
Member
 
Code05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Easton MD
Posts: 1,841
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post

Don't you think for the average DIYer on this forum it is better to say use a 2 pole breaker fro 240 volt circuits that get involved with handle ties?

Yeah, you are right. I will remember that.
Code05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 10:35 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 729
Rewards Points: 500
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Are you guys sure this is legal?
I have had an inspector freak out after wiring in a condensate pump (120v) to the air handler power (240v), with a neutral back to the box. Got busted by 3 different inspectors doing this.
One of the inspectors said the wiring to the pump couldn't carry enough current to trip the 60amp breaker.

Last edited by Master of Cold; 08-27-2011 at 10:37 PM.
Master of Cold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2011, 11:27 PM   #9
Member
 
Code05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Easton MD
Posts: 1,841
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
Are you guys sure this is legal?
I have had an inspector freak out after wiring in a condensate pump (120v) to the air handler power (240v), with a neutral back to the box. Got busted by 3 different inspectors doing this.
One of the inspectors said the wiring to the pump couldn't carry enough current to trip the 60amp breaker.
You got busted 'cause what you did was illegal.

We were talking about a multi-wire branch circuit. 20 amp 240v and 20 amp 120v mixed on a properly sized breaker and using properly sized wires.

Think of a dryer or range circuit.
Code05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 12:49 AM   #10
Idiot Emeritus
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 1,632
Rewards Points: 1,058
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
Are you guys sure this is legal?
I have had an inspector freak out after wiring in a condensate pump (120v) to the air handler power (240v), with a neutral back to the box. Got busted by 3 different inspectors doing this.
One of the inspectors said the wiring to the pump couldn't carry enough current to trip the 60amp breaker.
The proper way to do this when the 240 circuit is larger than 20 amps is to install a fused disconnect switch to protect the smaller wiring.

It's done on a regular basis on commercial A/C units that have condensate pumps. It can even be done on a 208 or 240 volt 3 phase circuit. Just don't use the high leg if it's a 240 delta.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2011, 12:57 AM   #11
Member
 
Code05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Easton MD
Posts: 1,841
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

110V from 220v pump circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
The proper way to do this when the 240 circuit is larger than 20 amps is to install a fused disconnect switch to protect the smaller wiring.

It's done on a regular basis on commercial A/C units that have condensate pumps. It can even be done on a 208 or 240 volt 3 phase circuit. Just don't use the high leg if it's a 240 delta.
Dat works.

240.21(B)(2)

(2) Taps Not over 7.5 m (25 ft) Long. Where the length of
the tap conductors does not exceed 7.5 m (25 ft) and the tap
conductors comply with all the following:
(1) The ampacity of the tap conductors is not less than
one-third of the rating of the overcurrent device protecting
the feeder conductors.
(2) The tap conductors terminate in a single circuit breaker
or a single set of fuses that limit the load to the ampacity
of the tap conductors. This device shall be permitted
to supply any number of additional overcurrent devices
on its load side.
(3) The tap conductors are protected from physical damage
by being enclosed in an approved raceway or by other
approved means.

Advertisement

Code05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need help converting my 220v to 110v on wall... chroniclivin Electrical 2 12-18-2010 02:22 PM
220v to 110v extension cord? glamabilly Electrical 14 09-26-2010 12:25 AM
multiple devices on a 220V circuit? mopowers Electrical 15 01-31-2010 06:13 PM
Wiring a single pole switch into a 220v circuit rlmorgan Electrical 38 10-15-2008 08:59 PM
220v from 110v leboyd Electrical 6 03-19-2006 09:51 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts