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Old 02-23-2009, 04:28 PM   #1
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York JCI Manufacture


I own a midsize HVAC company in a northwest suburb of Chicago. I have, for several years, put out many fires from angry homeowners that have a York furnace or air conditioner in there homes.
I have finally had enough after being lied to and after thousands of my own dollars lost because of NO manufacture support. At first I thought I am just running into a string of angry customers, it happens. But time after time with no willingness from the manufacture to help I started replacing York furnaces with Lennox at my own cost. Guess what? NO MORE PROBLEMS. The York technical support team consisting of one Mike Bishop always underminded me and my staff. "you should attend our training classes." Insinuating we are installing the equipment wrong. Well I would go along with that if the Lennox equipment did not work too.
So I, as a past dealer am simpathetic to the consumer and am sorry. I do not see any future turn around from York, because I have been fighting this battle for 3 years.

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Old 02-23-2009, 04:54 PM   #2
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York JCI Manufacture


Lennox has GREAT tech support, DaveNet and LOTS of training materials for their dealers/techs. Worth your while to take advantage of it.

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Old 02-23-2009, 07:27 PM   #3
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So what kind of troubles were you having???

I haven't have the any problems with them, that gave me unhappy customers.
That the complaint couldn't be resolved.

Even got one of their tech support people to help on a Luxaire unit.
Which for some strange reason, they aren't suppose to do.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:10 AM   #4
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I may be a bit biased, but you can't go wrong with Lennox.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:19 AM   #5
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I don't care what brand he's talking about.

I'd like to know what all these problems were.
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
So what kind of troubles were you having???

I haven't have the any problems with them, that gave me unhappy customers.
That the complaint couldn't be resolved.

Even got one of their tech support people to help on a Luxaire unit.
Which for some strange reason, they aren't suppose to do.
The largest problem is limit trip on counterflow furnaces with a by pass humidifier installed. I have had multiple suggestions and still no fix. The comment received from tech support is "you should send guys to service and install classes. My response was I put hundreds of units in a year, with multiple manufactures, why am I not having these problems with other manufactures? No answer. In short the answer to my service questions are always back handed comments. I also had a run on bad pressure switches. York
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:28 AM   #7
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York JCI Manufacture


i worked for York International when JCI was hiding in the bushes around 2002 getting ready to take them over.compared to Trane on training the techs coming in could tech the classes for what they call instructors.Yorks R&D is performed by the contractors who call up with problems and give them suggestions as you did...the trick is to talk clear and slow so they can write it down out in PA.Yorks big money maker and main focus is anything over 500 tons.anything under that is built as an after thought just to compete,and the tech support reflects it believe me from experience standing in front of a 250 ton chillers with the customer breathing on me,and the cell phone stuck to my ear.the PRODUCT quality is reflective of the support you get from the brand use that sight unseen and you can't go wrong.i can't imagine calling the factory on a 4 ton split residential unit and thinking who this guy on the other end of the phone was or came from!

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Old 03-09-2009, 10:38 AM   #8
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I get good tech support for residential.

On the down flows. That occurs when you are close to the max temp rise.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:18 PM   #9
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I wonder if the OP is cutting into the furnace casing for the bypass.

Something could be blocking air flow, but you didn't mention what the temp rise is.

Your credibility is going to be seriously challenged if you don't post some real numbers.

I'd want to know cfm, temp rise, gas press, return air duct size, if the evap is clean, you know, the stuff any good tech would check before calling tech service.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:41 AM   #10
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And did you replace with the same size furnace.
Or was the replacement 10,000 BTUs smaller.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:19 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
I wonder if the OP is cutting into the furnace casing for the bypass.

Something could be blocking air flow, but you didn't mention what the temp rise is.

Your credibility is going to be seriously challenged if you don't post some real numbers.

I'd want to know cfm, temp rise, gas press, return air duct size, if the evap is clean, you know, the stuff any good tech would check before calling tech service.
I have been around the block a few times. New system, new a-coil, fiberglass filter, fan speed on high, gas pressure within range, limit temperature 4 degrees below limit temp hi end, all vents open and blowing hard in a slab. I am not a complainer, I have had multiple dealings with York, non-positive. I have chosen this platform to get some feedback, use it as a sounding board and learn something I may not know. The damage is done, and it is obvious the business York values in todays bad economy is not mine.
With Lennox, the rep is at the residence at my scheduling needs, and if there is continual problems, they give me a new furnace and pay for the labor to install it again. That is a company that values business.
York in my experience always, always points the finger at the dealer first.

Last edited by ApprovedComfort; 03-11-2009 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:25 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ApprovedComfort View Post
I have been around the block a few times. New system, new a-coil, fiberglass filter, fan speed on high, gas pressure within range, limit temperature 4 degrees below limit temp hi end, all vents open and blowing hard in a slab. I am not a complainer, I have had multiple dealings with York, non-positive. I have chosen this platform to get some feedback, use it as a sounding board and learn something I may not know. The damage is done, and it is obvious the business York values in todays bad economy is not mine.
With Lennox, the rep is at the residence at my scheduling needs, and if there is continual problems, they give me a new furnace and pay for the labor to install it again. That is a company that values business.
York in my experience always, always points the finger at the dealer first.

I am not beating up on you, but your complaint bordered on whining. Just the way I took it , please don't take offense.

Fact is you are running the at the top end temp split.

If you really want some resolution in the form of professional input of the highest quality than I would got to HVAC-Talk,com. They are an all pro site.

But be prepared to take some heavy criticism. But I guarantee you will get answers if you give specifics.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ApprovedComfort View Post
I have been around the block a few times.

New system, new a-coil, fiberglass filter, fan speed on high, gas pressure within range, limit temperature 4 degrees below limit temp hi end, all vents open and blowing hard in a slab.

If you have been around the block a few times. Then you know better then to be so close to limit trip temp. Since to be that close to limit temp, means your exceeding allowable temp rise. Unless these people are keeping their homes at 100F.

I am not a complainer, I have had multiple dealings with York, non-positive.

Then why didn't you attend any of their training classes where you could have brought this up with everybody else there. And gotten their feed back.

I have chosen this platform to get some feedback, use it as a sounding board and learn something I may not know.

Good, then your learning that you have low air flow.
And its your set up, not the equipment.

The damage is done, and it is obvious the business York values in todays bad economy is not mine.

They want their product installed at least close to what the install manual says.


With Lennox, the rep is at the residence at my scheduling needs, and if there is continual problems, they give me a new furnace and pay for the labor to install it again.

So how many Lennox furnaces have you pulled out, and put in a smaller one after the Lennox rep was there and looked at the house.

That is a company that values business.
York in my experience always, always points the finger at the dealer first.
You don't do load calcs, or you wouldn't be putting in over sized furnaces.

If your only 4F from limit trip temp at hi blower speed. The duct work is TOO SMALL for the furnace.
Let alone, the furnace is over sized for the house.

So how much smaller of a furnace does the Lennox rep send out, when he provides a replacement furnace.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
e.

But be prepared to take some heavy criticism.
LOL... That never happens over there.


There are some very good system sizing,and duct work sizing and design people over there.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
LOL... That never happens over there.


There are some very good system sizing,and duct work sizing and design people over there.

You Cleazy!

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