Whole House Humidifier - HVAC - Page 3 - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2008, 04:19 AM   #31
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbehrends View Post
Hi Jerry,
First off sorry to somewhat de-rail your thread. I painted one of my rooms and while I had the outlet covers off I noticed a sizable draft coming out of the outlet or light switch. Could you elaborate a little more on what you mean by "gasket all of the outlets"? The breeze I felt was coming from inside the box and not from around the outside edges, strangely enough. I'm guessing stuffing some insulation around the wire nuts is a bad idea?
Not a problem.
http://www.canambuildingenvelope.com...0-1130-seo.pdf

Advertisement

jerryh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 05:48 AM   #32
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,525
Rewards Points: 4,688
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
Can I throw something in here to give a little insight on the water wasting comments of the 360. It says it has a evaporative capacity of .5 gal/hr but a feed rate of 6 gal/hr. 6 gallons of hot water per hour seems like a lot to get .5 gallons into the air. Not trying to get in the middle of the "discussion", but those numbers seem to justify the "water wasting" position.
The 350 and 360 are NOT bypass humidifiers.

The statement was that bypass are wastefull.

The 350 and 360 rely on absorbing roughly 480 BTUs of heat from the room air per .5 pounds of water to evaporate it.
At 5 CFM it takes a lot of time to remove that heat from the air, and evaporate the water. If they don't receive a steady supply of hot water, the air will cool the water to a point of lower evaporation, and cooler discharge air temp. So those units require a constant supply of hot water to prevent you from feeling a cool air draft while they run.

Half of their water consumption is to prevent you from feeling a cool draft.

The 350 and 360 are an entirely different class of humidifier then a bypass.

That would be a orange to grapefruit comparision.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 06:06 AM   #33
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,802
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
The 350 and 360 are NOT bypass humidifiers.

The statement was that bypass are wastefull.

The 350 and 360 rely on absorbing roughly 480 BTUs of heat from the room air per .5 pounds of water to evaporate it.
At 5 CFM it takes a lot of time to remove that heat from the air, and evaporate the water. If they don't receive a steady supply of hot water, the air will cool the water to a point of lower evaporation, and cooler discharge air temp. So those units require a constant supply of hot water to prevent you from feeling a cool air draft while they run.

Half of their water consumption is to prevent you from feeling a cool draft.

The 350 and 360 are an entirely different class of humidifier then a bypass.

That would be a orange to grapefruit comparision.
Ok. Good point. I should have explanied I was talking about that model in particular(350/360) and not bypass units.
jerryh3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 10:49 AM   #34
Member
 
hvaclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Suburbs of Detroit Mi
Posts: 3,704
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
The 350 and 360 are NOT bypass humidifiers.

The statement was that bypass are wastefull.

The 350 and 360 rely on absorbing roughly 480 BTUs of heat from the room air per .5 pounds of water to evaporate it.
At 5 CFM it takes a lot of time to remove that heat from the air, and evaporate the water. If they don't receive a steady supply of hot water, the air will cool the water to a point of lower evaporation, and cooler discharge air temp. So those units require a constant supply of hot water to prevent you from feeling a cool air draft while they run.

Half of their water consumption is to prevent you from feeling a cool draft.

The 350 and 360 are an entirely different class of humidifier then a bypass.

That would be a orange to grapefruit comparision.
This, your humble Padwon, thanks you O Master!
__________________
Just slow, not stupid.
hvaclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 01:54 PM   #35
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,525
Rewards Points: 4,688
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
This, your humble Padwon, thanks you O Master!

LOL... Your welcome.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 08:38 PM   #36
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbehrends View Post
Hi Jerry,
First off sorry to somewhat de-rail your thread. I painted one of my rooms and while I had the outlet covers off I noticed a sizable draft coming out of the outlet or light switch. Could you elaborate a little more on what you mean by "gasket all of the outlets"? The breeze I felt was coming from inside the box and not from around the outside edges, strangely enough. I'm guessing stuffing some insulation around the wire nuts is a bad idea?
These should be installed on all electrical outlets as well as wall switches inside the house that are on exterior walls. Additionally, we also have those baby safety plugs in the electrical outlet itself even after having applied the gasket.

They are really, really cheap (around 50 cents per) and a one time energy conservation task.

If you want to see some pic's (along with how much space are in our electrical outlets you can see them in here in an article we wrote on our home web site if it helps clarify things:

Air Leakage & Electrical Outlets
Air Leakage & Wall Switches

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 11-02-2008 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Web Link Removed from Signature
Educator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 08:45 PM   #37
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whole house humidifier


Regarding the home humidifier topic, we had excessive low humidity issues last year (1st year in a 21 year old 1,700 sq. ft bungalow in Ontario).

Our home is pretty well sealed (per the energy audit we had last fall), with a high efficiency furnace. Our total cubit meters of natural gas consumed over the past 12 months was only 980 (home heating, home hot water heating, exterior BBQ).

There is a flow thru humidifier, with a new pad last year yet we were only able to get around 30% humidity at most. It was uncomfortable and I'm concerned about the new hardwood floors.

And, this fall we are installing a new solar air heating device on the south wall which should reduce (to what extent we shall see) the amount of time the furnace runs on sunny days.

I'm thinking that perhaps our furnace is not on enough for the flow through humidifier to work. Do we need to go with a different type of humifier? Would that make a significant difference? And if so, what is the best (A) type and (B) brand / make / model that you would recommend?

We had thought of the Honeywell steam humidifier mentioned above because it's not slave to the furnace running. But I am concerned about the cost $1,000-ish (geeeze) and electrical consumption.

Many thanks for your help. Home humidifiers are not my strong point.

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 11-02-2008 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Web Link Removed from Signature
Educator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 08:56 PM   #38
Member
 
hvaclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Suburbs of Detroit Mi
Posts: 3,704
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


The down side of tightening up a house with the existing furnace. Or you are a causality of over an. sized furnace. You are correct, it is not running enough to keep the home well humidified.
Kits may be purchased that will turn on the humidifier and furnace blower
when this is an issue. You will have to hook up your humidifier to the hot side of the plumbing. The hot water will provide enough heat to absorb moisture into the dry air as the blower operates.
__________________
Just slow, not stupid.
hvaclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 09:11 PM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whole house humidifier


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
The down side of tightening up a house with the existing furnace. Or you are a causality of over an. sized furnace. You are correct, it is not running enough to keep the home well humidified.
Kits may be purchased that will turn on the humidifier and furnace blower
when this is an issue. You will have to hook up your humidifier to the hot side of the plumbing. The hot water will provide enough heat to absorb moisture into the dry air as the blower operates.
Many thanks for the extremely quick reply, hvaclover.

Let me preface by saying I am not sufficiently experienced to install any kits you reference, so I would need to get someone to do this for me.

First, if the kit is installed so the furnace fan runs when the humidifier needs to run, is the benefit of changing the plumbing so hot and not cold water runs into the flow through humidifier sufficiently significant?

Second, I mentioned this to the Direct Energy serviceman last year and he told me that the unit would not work that way. I am not sufficient knowledgable / experience with humidifiers to have countered this statement that he made.

However, for obvious safety reasons, I don't want to get just any Joe Schmo to make the change. Any thoughts on why the Direct Energy seviceman would have said that it couldn't be done and suggestions on who to contact other than any old plumber in the yellow pages?

Last, will changing the wiring so the furnace fan will run whenever either the furnace needs to heat the house or whenever the flow through humidifier needs to run do anything to void the waranty on the furnace?

I really don't want to spend all that money to buy another humidifier when installation of such a kit makes common sense to me and would seem to be the answer.

Many thanks for your guidance!

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 11-02-2008 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Web Link Removed from Signature
Educator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 09:40 PM   #40
Member
 
hvaclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Suburbs of Detroit Mi
Posts: 3,704
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


Gotta do some research. Company that sold that kit was sold.

I have the info in my achieves. I'll get it asap.
__________________
Just slow, not stupid.
hvaclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 06:48 AM   #41
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,525
Rewards Points: 4,688
Default

Whole house humidifier


You can have a Honeywell IAQ thermostat installed to controll the furnace and the humidifier.
It will run the furnaces fan when it calls for the humidifier to run.

You will need the humidifier connected to the hot water line.

It works if your humidifier is a flow thrue.

Don't confuse flow thru with bypass.
The Aprilaire 400 is a bypass humidifier, but it is not a flow thru, and connecting it to the hot water line won't help.

If your humidifier has a sump, it is not a flow thru.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 10:14 AM   #42
Member
 
hvaclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Suburbs of Detroit Mi
Posts: 3,704
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


Thanks Been. I was digging in my old Autoflo paper work. That one you mentioned I am not that familiar with but will work just as well.
__________________
Just slow, not stupid.
hvaclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 10:29 AM   #43
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 49
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Whole house humidifier


Thank you to both beenthere and hvaclover.

What about the questions of why a feed from the hot water tank to the flow through humidifier? I know that hot air 'vapourizes' faster than cold. What I am referring to is how much faster will the air vapourize? Will it really make that much difference in reducing the duration that the humidifier has to work / run with a warm water feed?

Many thanks for the clarity!

Last edited by AtlanticWBConst.; 11-02-2008 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Web Link Removed from Signature
Educator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 11:03 AM   #44
Member
 
hvaclover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Suburbs of Detroit Mi
Posts: 3,704
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Whole house humidifier


No, it will make up for the lack of run time of the heating cycle.
__________________
Just slow, not stupid.
hvaclover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2008, 11:43 AM   #45
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,525
Rewards Points: 4,688
Default

Whole house humidifier


Water emps below 130F only increase a humidifiers ability very slightly.

You need 140 water to have any real gainfull increase in evaporation rate.

Water must absorb X amount of BTUs to evaporate.
Using hot water(140) it doesn't have to absorb as much heat from the air to vaporize.

Depending on furnace discharge air temp. Using hot water can increase evaporation rate by .5 to 1 pound an hour(1 pound is just under 1 pint).

As trivial as that may sound.
A 2000 sq ft house, with 8' high ceilings. Requires .172 pounds of moisture increase to raise its RH from 30% to 40%.
(doesn't include loss to infiltration)

Its not easy to add that moisture if a furnace only runs 10 minutes once or twice an hour.

Advertisement

beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
humidifier


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
replumbing an old house simonfrog Plumbing 7 01-30-2012 05:45 AM
Humidifier & Thermostat BigD HVAC 1 12-19-2007 09:04 PM
HVAC humidifier issue rfjm58 HVAC 4 04-12-2007 07:46 PM
Re-siding house jdig Building & Construction 5 04-10-2007 10:15 AM
Brick and block house footer question. ourzoo Building & Construction 2 07-01-2006 03:57 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts