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Old 10-08-2012, 10:31 PM   #16
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What is this thing?


seems like it would make alot of noise..banging....ben sr.. thanks..bt

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:38 PM   #17
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What is this thing?


They do when not set up right. Or the main vent stops working and someone jacks the pressure up to get the rads to heat.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #18
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What is this thing?


well then ..... i learned today ...hopefully I never see it i wont know what I am looking at ....
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:31 AM   #19
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What is this thing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
With a Single pipe system carmon, you have steam rising up, but the water goes back down through the piping to be reheated back to steam. Really inefficient system, but was done to save money, due to less piping needed for heating.
I disagree with the efficiency part of this statement. How are you measuring it? AFUE or actual system efficiency?
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:40 AM   #20
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What is this thing?


You don't. Inefficient in that as the moisture that is created when the steam cools, as it is running back to the boiler, it is in turn also cooling any steam in the piping, along with the piping. So in turn the system has to work harder to make up for any heat loss, caused by the steam not being as hot as it was when it left the boiler.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #21
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What is this thing?


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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
You don't. Inefficient in that as the moisture that is created when the steam cools, as it is running back to the boiler, it is in turn also cooling any steam in the piping, along with the piping. So in turn the system has to work harder to make up for any heat loss, caused by the steam not being as hot as it was when it left the boiler.
You don't measure it? How cold do you think the water in the return gets? How is this different than a boiler that requires a pump to circulate the water? You need electricity to run that pump, on a steamer, you don't have the pumps, that's why I asked how its being measured. Steam boilers don't get a favourable efficiency rating until you start measuring the system as a whole, then it gets pretty close to the others.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #22
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What is this thing?


Yes, but you are also preheating the condensate before it returns to the boiler, as well as you only have one pipe that is loosing heat to the surrounding air as well.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:06 AM   #23
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What is this thing?


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Yes, but you are also preheating the condensate before it returns to the boiler, as well as you only have one pipe that is loosing heat to the surrounding air as well.
Again, this is different from circulating water or air through cold pipes or duct work? Its not a concern on those systems, why is it more of a concern on a steam system?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #24
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What is this thing?


I don't think it's a problem at all, that was the design and it has proven to work over the past many decades. As previously mentioned, if all piping is graded properly and pipe is sized correctly for number of rads etc. these systems have been in service for a long time.

My post was submitted at the same time yours was, so I was making comment to the same post you were.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #25
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What is this thing?


A single pipe is slightly less efficient then a 2 pipe steam system. You don't get that last bit of heat from the condensate like you do in a 2 pipe. But the money saved on installation, and on repairs down the road makes up for it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:47 PM   #26
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What is this thing?


the pipe sizes are calculated for the flash of the steam condensate and they work fantastic. You have to have an air relief valve at each radiator location or you will definately hear the knocking of the condensate hammering into the radiator. Its a very simple system. Controls are simple and readily available. Pick up any heating and AC textbook and it will have diagrams of how the single pipe steam system operates.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:50 PM   #27
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What is this thing?


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Originally Posted by Patrick Eubanks View Post
the pipe sizes are calculated for the flash of the steam condensate and they work fantastic. You have to have an air relief valve at each radiator location or you will definately hear the knocking of the condensate hammering into the radiator. Its a very simple system. Controls are simple and readily available. Pick up any heating and AC textbook and it will have diagrams of how the single pipe steam system operates.
that page must off been missing in my book 30 years ago....
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:13 AM   #28
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What is this thing?


We see them on occasion. The system actually works pretty good in a whole house application or in a commercial application where your heating an entire space. Its really not the greatest of applications for an apartment building. They are very hard to regulate temperature wise at each radiator location. Most of the steam design material recommends that this not be attempted. When the control vavle at each radiator location shuts off, It tends to trap air in the radiator which in turn requires a substantial increase in BTU's for that particular radiator in order to get the space back up to temp. Once the space is up to temp, the radiator is still hot which causes crazy temperature swings in the space. And then,,,,,,the cycle repeats itself. To answer the original question, with a one pipe system, the temperature is probably controlled at the boiler. If you dont have a hot radiator, the boiler is more that likely not fired up yet. Good luck
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Patrick Eubanks View Post
Its really not the greatest of applications for an apartment building. They are very hard to regulate temperature wise at each radiator location. ... Good luck
That is why they are inefficient. In the days of cheap fuel, temp regulation consisted of opening the windows in the winter!
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:46 PM   #30
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Its really not the greatest of applications for an apartment building. They are very hard to regulate temperature wise at each radiator location.
Really? I know more than a few people that would take issue with that incorrect assessment. Ever heard of a TRV? A properly maintained system can do that, but once the knuckleheads get a hold of it, it can be hard to fix.

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