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What Makes a Furnace Irrepairable?

4K views 19 replies 8 participants last post by  Bob Sanders 
#1 · (Edited)
I've read many places that replacing a typical natural gas furnace can be around $5,000, but what triggers replacement time?

My furnace is a 90% efficiency Trane XE90 from 1993. Last year I had to replace the ignitor, no big deal (beyond that, it has served us fairly well), but looking at another very cold winter in PA coming, I'm wondering what makes a furnace end of life? What part can you not feasibly replace?

Since my unit is 22 years old, maybe it's time to start worrying....

TIA,
-Jason
 
#2 ·
I would not worry. If the heat exchanger cracks and is obsolete or some parts are obsolete then you need a new one. Once the cost of repairs gets very high most people don't want to keep throwing $300-$800 into a old furnace 2-3X in repairs and then a yr later the heat ex splits and it all goes for scrapmetal. Trane is good for getting parts for older furnaces vs some companies who don't always have them instock or easy access to them. Circuit boards change and you need expensive retrofit kits so economics is usually a driving factor when deciding to replace.

Lennox, Carrier, Trane all have been around for a LONG time and have good part supplies so I would not worry. Replacing a heat exchanger when off warranty will cost 1/2 of a new furnace so nobody does it. Same with replacing a AC compressor off warranty.
 
#4 ·
If it has the original 22 yr old circuit board I would unless you can DIY and replace it when it goes. If you have to pay a contractor it will be over $600. Other issue is whether you want to be stuck w/o heat when it starts to break down and how long it takes to get a Pro and parts. In a mild climate not so bad, in the Great White North we cannot go w/o heat for more than a day w/o water pipes freezing.
 
#9 ·
That XE 90 was a well designed furnace. I used to sell them along with the XE 80 and XL 80 back in the early '90's when I sold residential HVAC. I sold mostly Trane with a bit of Carrier, York and Rheem thrown in for good measure.

If you are looking at replacement options, I would highly recommend the XL-95. Up to 96% AFUE and a two stage gas valve. What I really like about the two stage valve is, it starts off in low fire, and if that satisfies your head load, it shuts off. If after a period of time in low fire (not sure about the timing) your T-Stat is still calling for heat.... the gas valve then opens fully and it goes to warp 9 until it does.

With the two stage gas valve, you end up with fewer cycles in moderate early spring and fall temperatures, using less gas and keeping the house more comfortable. With a single stage gas valve, where it goes to warp 9 right off the bat, you have a lot more on/off cycles during moderate temperatures.
 
#10 · (Edited)
When the heat exchanger goes, you have to change the furnace. You won't gain much from upgrading from 90% to 95%+.

You can get parts changed for as long as you want. A matter of how much good money you want to throw after bad.

If you want, do research ahead of time and interview contractors, so when it konks out, you'll be ready to go and won't have to scramble.

$5000 is really high and depending on your area and what is purchased, you can probably get something for as little for $3000. The 2-stage/variable speed would probably set you back at least another $1000. Some brands such as trane and york still make 2-stage furnaces with regular blower motors. (the variable is good if you run the fan continuously and a few other things - do some research on it)


If after a period of time in low fire (not sure about the timing) your T-Stat is still calling for heat.... the gas valve then opens fully and it goes to warp 9 until it does.
Only if a two-stage thermostat isn't used, otherwise it only hits high when really needed and can cycle between low and high. Re-using the single stage stat saves the contractor under $80 us materials at cost if something like a 5-1-1 focus pro is used.
 
#11 ·
When the heat exchanger goes, you have to change the furnace. You won't gain much from upgrading from 90% to 95%+.

You can get parts changed for as long as you want. A matter of how much good money you want to throw after bad.

If you want, do research ahead of time and interview contractors, so when it konks out, you'll be ready to go and won't have to scramble.

$5000 is really high and depending on your area and what is purchased, you can probably get something for as little for $3000. The 2-stage/variable speed would probably set you back at least another $1000. Some brands such as trane and york still make 2-stage furnaces with regular blower motors. (the variable is good if you run the fan continuously and a few other things - do some research on it)


Only if a two-stage thermostat isn't used, otherwise it only hits high when really needed and can cycle between low and high. Re-using the single stage stat saves the contractor under $80 us materials at cost if something like a 5-1-1 focus pro is used.
Why do people comment on prices, when its all custom work and nobody that does not see the job, knows what its going to take?

I am doing a job monday furnace/ac for $7k 2 stage furnace/2stage stat/all new venting including combustion air/ I am sure my customer can go out and find some idiot bubba to do it for $3k and use the existing ultravent, single stage furnace, existing mercury stat
 
#12 · (Edited)
Pricing seems to be taboo on hvac forums, but it does help to get a general guide. You guys don't want people shopping around and comparing or trying to get the markup down; I get that, it's fine, you're running a business rather than a charity, but equipment owners have different priorities and what's in your interest is not necessarily best for the customer.

Of course, if there's a lot of metal work, it will add a lot to the cost.

If the customer goes for some fancy communicating system, it could cost a lot more. Same with a humidifier and air cleaner.

Brand varies, contractor markup varies, etc, etc - that's why I put in "depending on where you are and what you get."
 
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#14 ·
So how do you give someone a "general guide"? $3k to $10k?

I don't care if my customers get other quotes.....I know the job I am going to do for the $$ If they want bubba at$3k they are not my customer anyway. Just expect that the guy who takes the $3k bubba will be back here or other sites in a short time trying to locate bubba, can't get support when they call Goodman directly, etc...etc...etc...
 
#13 · (Edited)
Contractor makes a huge difference btw.

From a huge company* a furnace (2 stage/variable) and ac (15 seer, name brand) in my area costs something crazy like $10 000 depending on the job from stuff i've seen on forums where people post quotes.

*Here we have companies like direct energy/enercare that make a killing on maintenance contracts and markups.

Find a smaller local but still good contractor and that can be reduced significantly. There's no point of paying much for advertizing, "paper shuffling", and shareholders. (
 
#15 · (Edited)
^Frankly that's just a scare tactic, and the $10k was just for example's sake of how someone could get ripped off so easily by commissioned salespeople, employed by big companies in this industry.

There are good, small reputable companies (who happen to be dealers) that have been around for years, which will do at least as good as a job as the huge ones, at a lower cost, with a full 10 year manufacturer's warranty. The price would be in the middle of "bubba" and "huge corporation", probably better customer service. Could even mean the difference between getting someone who's knowledgeable (perhaps the installer, owner, or "semi-retired technician" who does sales now) rather than a pushy, sleazy salesman with no knowledge, just a crappy business or marketing degree.

The lowest price in any given area would for single stage btw, 1" filter, little sheet metal. Nothing wrong with that if that's what the customer wants/can afford. That's all people used to buy.
 
#17 ·
Variable is actually really, really nice (until the repair costs come ;) ) -> offers compensation for duct pressure, lots of features like dehumidification on demand. It's a total waste for the homeowner who just wants "basic heat", has no ac, fan in auto mode. These days to get 2-stage with most brands u have to step up to the ecm motor.
 
#18 ·
Variable speed ECMs are VERY nice for continuos air circ as you can run them at 40% capacity and you cannot do that with a PSC. They also use a lot less elec on continuos and if you crunch the numbers will break even even with replacing the motor in 10 yrs.

However if you don't use it for continuos you are wasting the technology and features. Still get better airflow but for Grandma in a 900 sq ft bungalow with huge old school ductwork that is not a problem anyway.
 
#19 ·
I have a Trane XV 90 which has been installed since around 2003. I also have the Trane XL 1800(?) dual compressor condensing unit (It's a BIG son of a gun for a 3 ton unit). My fan has never stopped running except for the twice yearly service. I absolutely love it.

But I do realize that the variable speed fan will probably go soon. I've actually been planning for it.
 
#20 ·
I must say I originally thought ecm was a waste of money, but now after having one for a while I find it really nice. I love how you can set them to wind up slowly so you don't get a sudden blast of noise and air like with psc's when they start. My old psc used to wake me up sometimes in the night because of that. My new ecm hasn't woken me up once yet.
 
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