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Old 01-27-2012, 03:11 AM   #1
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


I request your help on my Lennox G16Q3-75 Gas Furnace as the burners will not engage as pilot only lights for approx 2 secs and distinquishes. It continues to try to ignite.

The Honeywell S8610U module is linked to a Johnson Control Ingition Control Unit. It has an Electric spark ignitor with new flame sensor.

A video is posted on Youtube here:

http://youtu.be/-DAXntnN9Ug

Will check the module with a multi meter and report back. Any suggestions please?

Thank you

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Old 01-27-2012, 05:26 AM   #2
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


that gas valve is totally obsolete and that "conversion" with that S86 control DOES NOT meet the CGA or UL ratings of the furnace and is slightly illegal in the eyes of the insurance industry. if there ever is a major problem they can go after you or whoever did that work. I refused to convert those as there are at least 2 dozen different versions of that valve with different flame failure timing etc and I refuse to accept liability for them. there is an entire conversion kit from Lennox with new burners and gas valve etc but it costs around $1500 or more for me to install.

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Old 01-27-2012, 07:07 AM   #3
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


yuri......cant it be converted to a 3 wire valve and new spark box?
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:45 AM   #4
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
that gas valve is totally obsolete and that "conversion" with that S86 control DOES NOT meet the CGA or UL ratings of the furnace and is slightly illegal in the eyes of the insurance industry. if there ever is a major problem they can go after you or whoever did that work. I refused to convert those as there are at least 2 dozen different versions of that valve with different flame failure timing etc and I refuse to accept liability for them. there is an entire conversion kit from Lennox with new burners and gas valve etc but it costs around $1500 or more for me to install.
nice rant yuri!
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:00 AM   #5
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


It"s alive, IT'S ALIVE ! A Gas techy's version of Frankenstein.
A new 3 wire gas valve and control board is the only solution that I can see but only after a thourough exchanger check to see if it's worth while.
As I remember, those igniter connection instructions for that board seemed written by some one struggeling with English. When to clip the jumper/ when not to/ vague descriptions of which pilot system it applied to and make a mistake and its locked in. The op has said that the jumper on this board is hanging down (undoubtably live) next to the furnace body. So many ways to mess up on this conglomeration.

But Yuri, hasn't the new board taken over all the functions of the ignition timing with the valve only being operated through PV,MV & C so an obsolete ignition system has been replaced with one with a faster response time.?

Last edited by how; 01-27-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:15 PM   #6
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


Lennox has a conversion kit which gives you a new center burner and pilot burner from a G20 as well as a 3 wire gas valve and a S86 control and wiring harnesses etc. I converted a few G8E conservators ( predecessor to his ) and some G16s like his and it runs around $1500 or more. I hate/HATED to see S86 controls hanging in the air and hackers converting these units as the next guy to work on it was me and not the hacker. Thats why the rant. There were/are about 2 dozen versions of that G60 Johnson valve and if you read the fine print in a S86 or WR universal board the final responsibility for safety and liability rests on the guy who did the conversion not them ( applies to flame failure timing etc etc which you cannot get from Johnsons on those valves). I am an OEM tech all the way and have had a few run ins with the Dept of Labor and a frivolous lawsuit and am not going to subject myself to that again. VERY few people give a damn about liability or CGA or UL codes or safety but just get the thing hacked together as cheap as possible. OOPS ranting again.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:13 AM   #7
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


Thanks for all the advice todate!

I did check to see if the gas valve is receiving a steady 24V to the pilot solinoid when the pilot is lit by multimetering the "Common terminal for gas valves" and "Pilot Valve connection" posts on the Honeywell S8610U. The voltage does drop out after the intial ignition spark. The voltage does NOT stay on after the pilot goes out.

1) Does this mean my Honeywell S8610U needs replacement?

2) I checked the orange pressure tubing and they appear to be without any cracks or damage. How do I check the pressure switch please?

Please help me understand where I should be putting my multimeter probes or which posts on the S8610 ignition module.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-01-2012, 07:03 AM   #8
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


I get really frustrated when we freely give our professional advise......and people don't listen...........you have been told a 3 wire gas valve and new ignition control is the fix for your unit, and yet you are still chasing the old parts with a meter that you do not know how to operate.............
You have also been warned that the heat exchanger needs to be checked ....has that happened yet? Why bother asking a pro, if your not going to take our advise to heart?
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:21 PM   #9
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


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Originally Posted by harleyrider View Post
I get really frustrated when we freely give our professional advise......and people don't listen...........you have been told a 3 wire gas valve and new ignition control is the fix for your unit, and yet you are still chasing the old parts with a meter that you do not know how to operate.............
You have also been warned that the heat exchanger needs to be checked ....has that happened yet? Why bother asking a pro, if your not going to take our advise to heart?
Harley

I am not discounting any of the advice offered here but following up on suggestions from some of the pm's and emails I have exchanged in an effort to salvage this furnace.

Given the above posts about meeting code and insurance standards, I am prepared to simply get a new hi eff furnace but was offered advice to further determine the cause of this issue to see if this may be worth saving. I am simply following through on that advice and posting my findings

Thank you
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #10
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


geez ...that is like the third thread to rematerialize after it was answered.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:13 PM   #11
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


This thread should be closed!
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:43 PM   #12
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


everthing said all is vanity...bye bye
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:13 PM   #13
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Video: Gas Furnace Burners Won't Ignite as Pilot flames Out


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this thread should be closed!
ok.......

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