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Old 10-28-2008, 08:49 PM   #16
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using forced air for radiant heating


Actually, stone and concrete floors are easier to use for radiant heat. You can make it warmer then wood, and not damage it.

You have it backwards, which one works better.

LOL...

I don't have to try and make you look like a fool.

I am aware of the definitions for both heat, and energy.

Heated air or water, rises because of the molocules being further apart. Meaning the heated water or air is taking up/displacing more volume.
Exception being ice, which will float in hot water.

I have no hinden agenda.
I have no vested interest in what type of fuel, or system you use to heat or cool your house.

You, however, don't like to hear answers other then the ones you are looking for.


I sell, install and service.
I don't have smooth keyboard fingers.

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Old 10-28-2008, 08:50 PM   #17
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using forced air for radiant heating


Seal your floor from your crawlspace, and you'll reduce your heating bill a lot.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:52 PM   #18
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using forced air for radiant heating


Or...you could tell us how you really feel.

Lets not forget thermal mass.

Last edited by 8 Ball; 10-28-2008 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:25 PM   #19
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using forced air for radiant heating


re: thermal mass. If you heat the crawl space to 80 degrees, no matter what the thermal mass of the floor, it will eventually reach 80 degrees. It's just a matter of how efficiently you can do that to make it cost effective (stem losses from other areas which in this case is the foundation walls. Since the hot air will rise to the subfloor, losses to the ground will be mostly from radiation (from the heated subfloor) and at an 80 degree temperature, I don't think that would be too significant). This is where I disagree with Beenthere. He says 80 degrees just isnt hot enough to heat the floor. What I suspect he means is that it doesn't feel hot enough to the occupants, but he doesn't know how cold we've been used to living in this house. I think an 80 degree floor would feel great. We don't wear sweaters in here, we wear coats!

I agree with Beenthere that the floor has to be covered, but mainly because of dust, not water vapor.

I agree with Beenthere that it's not feasible to use outdoor air and pump it inside, but only because it won't work for cooling too.

So we're only about as far off as most engineers are from being in total agreement at any time :-). I appreciate everyone's input and I'm glad to see that you maintained your sense of humor throughout. True professionals :-).
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:40 AM   #20
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using forced air for radiant heating


Quite a few radiant floor systems are designed for 65, or 68F room temp.
Radiant floor heat isn't for keeping the actual air temp high(72, 74, etc).

Did a kitchen some years ago, that there was no way we had enough floor to heat it to 65 let alone 70.
So added a section of cast iron baseboard to make up the difference and to get it to 70. And incorporated it into the radiant loop itself.

Homes where people have a lot of furniture(a sofa can cover 21 sq ft easily, and reduce BTU output by 400 to 700BTUs), that has skirting to the floor, or bedrooms with large dressers and beds that fill the room. Are often disappointed not being able to use radiant floor heat.

A simple load calc can determine if radiant heat will be enough for a home or room. And save a lot of money and disappointment for the owner.

Each room of the home should be evaluated. Or buyers remorse can set in quickly.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:37 AM   #21
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using forced air for radiant heating


This has has wood floors throughout the first floor and no insulation under vast sections of it,and there is very little furniture as you describe so it seems like a perfect candidate from this description. Can you recommend a web site where I could find enough info to do a loadcalc? I imagine that I'd need heat capacities for various types of wood and wood, transfer constants for thicknesses for wood, etc. Can that stuff be found all in one place maybe?
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:37 AM   #22
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using forced air for radiant heating


Hard to find all the info in one place.

I have a couple different books to reference for heat transfers for checking how much heat is resisted, and how much can be transfered using it as an emmiter.

You may be able to download Wirsbo's program.
It would have the transfer rates in it. And I think their program will do a rough load calc for you.

If not, this link will take you to a load calc program for heatloss to determine BTUs needed.

http://hvaccomputer.com/talkref.asp

The above load calc program is a good one for people that have no training or experience doing load calcs.
It doesn't get too geeky.

I have no affiliation with the writer of the software. But have used it.
And its fairly accurate for sizing.
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:50 AM   #23
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using forced air for radiant heating


Hey thanks a lot Beethere, I will check these out. I also saw a company on tv called "crawlspaceconcepts" last night, and will call them about my idea (they're in Wilmington, nc). If they concurr with you guys, I'm going to call it a day and close the chapter on one more hairbrained scheme. When God sends that many people in a row to tell you your idea is stupid, it's no longer a test of your tenacity, but a "sign" :-).

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