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fdecker 11-13-2012 11:36 AM

Which thermostats have "Adaptive / smart / intelligent recovery"?
Wow, what an exercise in frustration. I've spoken with 4 different support people at the Hunter thermostat group and not one understands smart recovery on a heat pump. I try to explain the term and they don't know what I am talking about. They don't know if their units have it, and tell users that that span settings handle that!

If a company has such poor tech support and doesn't even know their product, I guess its time to return these and try another brand. I have the Hunter 44905. Does anyone know for sure if this does/doesn't have some kind of intelligent recovery? It seems to me that just like on a manual thermostat, if I try to raise the heat more than one degree, even in a programmed mode, it turns on the aux heat every time.

I'm having trouble googling any brands/models that have this. Can you point me to a few that will gradually raise my room temp without ever kicking in the strips? Funny, but I can see a Hunter patent on this from 1988 and hear that Honeywell has the capability, but it shouldn't be so hard to find them. Thanks!

beenthere 11-13-2012 11:55 AM

They'll all bring on the aux heat coming out of set back. Honeywell will start early, and cycle the aux on and off, but it will still use it. If you use an outdoor sensor with the stat, it can lock out the aux until the outdoor temp is below the heat pumps balance point. Honeywell IAQ and HD thermostats come to mind.

fdecker 11-13-2012 12:13 PM

No product like this on the market???
Should I go to the patent office? ;) So to your knowledge, there isn't a product on the market that is smart enough to do what I've been doing manually for two years? Turn the temp down 5 degrees at night, then up it 1 degree at a time over about 2-3 hours until the new temp is reached without ever kicking on the aux heat? Doesn't seem very intelligent or adaptive if it is still using aux heat.

gregzoll 11-13-2012 12:16 PM

Why would you want to bring up 1 degree increments over 2-3 hours. That defeats the purpose of having a programmable thermostat. If you want to do something like that, you can use the 3m Filtrete, and write your own program, using their api's.

In reality, you set the thermostat low to cut the heat or a/c while away, then have it set to raise the temp or lower the temp before you get home. The 3m-80/CT-80 has multiple program times (up to 8 I believe), that you can run it how you want, but again defeats the purpose of having one.

beenthere 11-13-2012 12:17 PM

I think the IAQ can have the aux locked out by time. meaning it has to run the heat pump X minutes( 5 to 120 minutes) first before it can bring on the aux heat. But that will of course mean that when the aux heat is needed sooner, it won't bring it on.

I'll have to check and see if the IAQ will do that.

fdecker 11-13-2012 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1051305)
Why would you want to bring up 1 degree increments over 2-3 hours. That defeats the purpose of having a programmable thermostat.

Not to disagree, but I would think this is exactly what a programmable thermostat is for. Maybe I wasn't clear. My old thermostats were manual Honeywells. The electric bill was outrageous because we were turning the temp down at night and then back up during the day. We also fiddled at other times moving it up 2 degrees when we were cold watching TV. Our bill more than doubled for that period. We didn't realize that every time the thermostat was set to more than 1 degree above the ambient room temp, it used the strip heater.

Our temporary solution was to turn the temp down at night, and then manually adjust it up one degree every time it hit the next mark and stopped until we got back up to temp. Depending on outdoor temp, it took about 2 hours to go up 5 or 6 degrees this way. This is obviously a PITA, but it keeps the strips from coming on. Every time either heat pump is turned up by more than one degree from the current room temp, the aux comes on.

So I thought that these intelligent models understood this. Instead of using strip heat to get the house up 5 degrees in 20 minutes, it did the equivalent of what I was doing and raised the temp up that 5 degrees in 2 or 3 hours.

In bought 2 Hunter 44905's and installed the first. Imagine my surprise when the program kicked in going from 67 at night to 71 at 8am and the strip heater immediately came on.

It defeats the purpose to my mind to still ramp up so slowly and yet also use aux heat. I can do that with any programmable by telling it to come on 20 minutes earlier than when I want to be warm. So this really confuses me. I need a truly smart unit that can have a setting where it won't turn on the aux heat unless it can't move the temp more than 1 degree in 45 minutes or something like that. Basically, I don't want aux heat to heat me faster, I only need it if it is so cold outside, the pump can't keep a certain temp steady without it. For my house, that is when it gets in the teens.

Wiring an outdoor thermometer may be part of a solution. With your help and some more research, maybe I can find something that will get me there. Didn't realize there was an API for any of these. I'm a software and firmware programmer, so that might also be an option.

ddawg16 11-13-2012 01:26 PM

How many different time settings can you have?

Any reason you can't tell it to go to 65 at 3am....66 at 4am....67 at 5am...etc?

fdecker 11-13-2012 02:08 PM

"How many different time settings can you have?"

I thought of that too. The Hunter only has 3, so that eliminates me just have separate 30 minute or 1 hour changes.

I just got off the phone with the radio thermostat company. They make Filtrete sold at Home Depot and another brand also sold on the HD online store. Same unit, different name and price ;) Anyway, what a different customer service experience. The gentleman on the phone knew everything I was talking about and answered all my questions. The have an expensive CT-80 or inexpensive CT-30. The 30 is the same as the HD 3M/Filtrete 3M-50 and they also have a 3M-30 without wifi. 4 settings instead of 3 on the hunter, and both a span/swing setting and aux setting instead of just swing. I can set up to a 4.5 degree temp differential on the units so that as long as my heating temp is less than 4.5 degrees from room temp, it won't use the aux heat. I can live with that. I'll buy one and see how it works.

gregzoll 11-13-2012 02:53 PM

RTCOA has a forum also. To let you know, I use the Our Home Spaces/Cloadbeam radio in my 3m-50. The OHS site allows for three different program, and is more robust than the randio that come with the thermostat.

There is also the Prophilix, ecobee and Nest.

beenthere 11-13-2012 03:13 PM

Programmable/set back stats weren't invented to slowly raise the temp.

fdecker 11-14-2012 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by gregzoll (Post 1051418)
RTCOA has a forum also. To let you know, I use the Our Home Spaces/Cloadbeam radio in my 3m-50. The OHS site allows for three different program, and is more robust than the randio that come with the thermostat.

Thanks for the info. They intended to use the 3M-30 with a radio and it has all the connectors, but I'm not sure the firmware and/or other circuitry is there to try and put a radio in it. Shame. FWIW, the price of the 3M-30 at my Home Depot dropped in half this week. It is only $38. No brainer. My wife won't let me spend the difference just to get wifi. ;) Other than a guy gimmick, she is right. I probably would never need that feature, its just cool to have.

gregzoll 11-14-2012 09:52 AM

The wifi radio module just plugs into the side of it. The OHS/Cloudbeam raio module is $60, but has more to ehat you can do through their site.

If you decide to stick with the module that come with the thermostat, you will have to keep a computer running 24/7, to run the program.

I switched to OHS after dealing with 3 straight months of RTCOA's servers being down, etc..

fdecker 11-14-2012 10:06 AM

Not sure if that was an ad for your signature line or not. It says that you're in Raleigh, and I'm in Raleigh too. also, I'm not using the 3m-50 I'm using the 3m-30. It does not come with the radio. The manufacture doesn't think it has the capability to put a radio in it even though there are connectors on the back. Do you know if you can put a radio in the 30?

gregzoll 11-14-2012 12:00 PM

No, you cannot install a radio in the 30, only the 3m-50 & 3m-80. The 30 is a dumb thermostat in the sense that you can't do much with it.

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