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Old 10-20-2008, 04:15 PM   #16
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


With 70" blades.
When teh fan is blowing air down, and pulling it up from the sides/walls. You are pulling air up across the outside wall. So you are cooling it down quicker.

When they say 10 to 15% savings. That is running the fans 24/7, under all conditions.
So doing your test under one condition only, is invalid.

With 70" blades, running them 24/7, your fans may be using more electric then they are saving you fuel for the furnace.

Fans running in the bedrooms with closed doors, can effect other rooms. Depends if the air from them is creating a pressure difference on the supply and return registers in those rooms.
You could get air movement going through your duct work. And if the duct work is in the attic. That means in the winter, your cooling the air down faster, and in the summer, your heating the air faster.
All depends on lay out of regs, grilles, and the fans throw.

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Old 10-20-2008, 07:36 PM   #17
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


Ceiling Fan Operating Costs per my research...

Ceiling fans are economical to operate as they consume very little energy. For example, a typical fan operating at high speed uses approximately 150 watts of power. Assuming that the fan is operated 10 hours per day at an energy cost of 11 cents per kWh, the cost of operation will be 16.5 cents per day. At lower speeds the operating cost will be even less. This low operating cost and the potential reduction in cooling and heating costs make the ceiling fan one of the best energy saving devices on the market.

To compare to these finding, last months rate for electricity averaged 8 cents per kWh. I say averaged because I'm on a pay by the hour rate. Natural gas on the other hand is at an amazing cost of $3.30 per therm. I'll be looking for these cheaper runs of electricity to help flatten my gas costs.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:54 PM   #18
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


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Originally Posted by Winchester View Post
Natural gas on the other hand is at an amazing cost of $3.30 per therm.

WOW!!!!!!

I pay $1.22 per therm
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:56 PM   #19
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


At 3.30 per therm for NG, you should get a HP with that electric rate.

With your numbers.
The OP is running say his one large fan 10 hours a day, at say 10 cents a day)probably more having 70" blades).
Ok, so 3 bucks a month.
Now, add 3 more fans running for 10 hours a day during the night.
Thats another 30 cents per day, or 9 bucks a month additional.
So a total of 12 bucks a month.

Now to save 10 to 15% on his heating bill.
If his bill for this month would be 50 bucks without the fans.
Then with the fans, he has to knock 17 dollars off that bill to have saved 10%.

Obviously, if it only reduced his gas consumption by 5 bucks, he would be out the 12 bucks for the fans electric.

A lot of times people don't consider what happens to the electric when you run 3 or more of those fans.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:03 PM   #20
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
With 70" blades.
When teh fan is blowing air down, and pulling it up from the sides/walls. You are pulling air up across the outside wall. So you are cooling it down quicker.

When they say 10 to 15% savings. That is running the fans 24/7, under all conditions.
So doing your test under one condition only, is invalid.

With 70" blades, running them 24/7, your fans may be using more electric then they are saving you fuel for the furnace.

Fans running in the bedrooms with closed doors, can effect other rooms. Depends if the air from them is creating a pressure difference on the supply and return registers in those rooms.
You could get air movement going through your duct work. And if the duct work is in the attic. That means in the winter, your cooling the air down faster, and in the summer, your heating the air faster.
All depends on lay out of regs, grilles, and the fans throw.

LOL.....That's why Bob Villa is an architect and not an HVAC guy. You can't be all things to all people. He's just a poser. (that'll make me REAL popular with the memebers, but truth is truth and I can't change it).
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:09 PM   #21
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


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Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
LOL.....That's why Bob Villa is an architect and not an HVAC guy. You can't be all things to all people. He's just a poser. (that'll make me REAL popular with the memebers, but truth is truth and I can't change it).
LOL

He's not a mechnical systems guy.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
LOL.....That's why Bob Villa is an architect and not an HVAC guy. You can't be all things to all people. He's just a poser. (that'll make me REAL popular with the memebers, but truth is truth and I can't change it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
LOL

He's not a mechnical systems guy.
So if bob villa is a hack, what mode should my fans be operating in during winter months? Counterclock(sucking up the walls, down in the middle) or clockwise(sucking up the middle of fan and blowing out against the walls)

And I performed the thermostat relocation test, and it has proved no difference in a 5 hr period that I have moved the thermostat, 2 feet from original position! So no change in relocating the thermostat!
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:00 PM   #23
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


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WOW!!!!!!

I pay $1.22 per therm
How do I do the math to turn a therm-- into a MCF?
I ask because my gas-ng company charges by the MCF at a rate of $12.91 an MCF!!!
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:02 PM   #24
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


He y Shade tree you hear the latest?

Bob Villa is taking a trip to DENMARK. I wonder how that will CHANGE him.

I think he will be adding words like "Ta-Ta" and "Fabulous" to his vocabulary.
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Old 10-20-2008, 10:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
How do I do the math to turn a therm-- into a MCF?
I ask because my gas-ng company charges by the MCF at a rate of $12.91 an MCF!!!
A dekatherm is roughly equal to 1 MCF. A dekatherm is 10 therms.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:13 AM   #26
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post
WOW!!!!!!

I pay $1.22 per therm
For example of use of the math for the therm, in this case then he is paying aproximtly $12.22 per mcf then correct? $1.22 per therm aproximatly 10 therms= 1 mcf? did i do this correct?

And also I done some investigating with my gas-NG company and question the increase over the past 5 yrs.
2004 per mcf rates were $11.04 ( i was using this NG co. at this time)
2005 per mcf rates were $12.41 (i was using this NG co. at this time)
2006 per mcf rates were $ 12.55 (didtn use)
2007 per mcf rates were $ 12.91 (didnt use)
2008 per mcf rates were $12.91 (will now be using)
So how is this possible for rates to remain so low when everything else that burns in this economy has taken well over a 300% increase over the same time line??
Is it possible that the economy doesnt effect NG?
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
For example of use of the math for the therm, in this case then he is paying aproximtly $12.22 per mcf then correct? $1.22 per therm aproximatly 10 therms= 1 mcf? did i do this correct?

And also I done some investigating with my gas-NG company and question the increase over the past 5 yrs.
2004 per mcf rates were $11.04 ( i was using this NG co. at this time)
2005 per mcf rates were $12.41 (i was using this NG co. at this time)
2006 per mcf rates were $ 12.55 (didtn use)
2007 per mcf rates were $ 12.91 (didnt use)
2008 per mcf rates were $12.91 (will now be using)
So how is this possible for rates to remain so low when everything else that burns in this economy has taken well over a 300% increase over the same time line??
Is it possible that the economy doesnt effect NG?
Uhhh because you buy it from TVA?
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Old 10-21-2008, 06:20 AM   #28
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


Don't worry. There working to incrfease the cost of NG for everyone.

Wait till they get CNG cars out as a standard.

NG prices will soar.
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Old 10-21-2008, 09:46 AM   #29
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Thermostat VS Ceiling fan


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
For example of use of the math for the therm, in this case then he is paying aproximtly $12.22 per mcf then correct? $1.22 per therm aproximatly 10 therms= 1 mcf? did i do this correct?

And also I done some investigating with my gas-NG company and question the increase over the past 5 yrs.
2004 per mcf rates were $11.04 ( i was using this NG co. at this time)
2005 per mcf rates were $12.41 (i was using this NG co. at this time)
2006 per mcf rates were $ 12.55 (didtn use)
2007 per mcf rates were $ 12.91 (didnt use)
2008 per mcf rates were $12.91 (will now be using)
So how is this possible for rates to remain so low when everything else that burns in this economy has taken well over a 300% increase over the same time line??
Is it possible that the economy doesnt effect NG?
The US has one of the largest supplies of NG on the planet. We have enough NG to run this country for over 80 years. And there is more to be discovered if some of these morons would get out of the way and let us drill.

The infrastructure is there to get the gas distributed and not much more needs to be done.

Now that Palin has that NG pipe line going that will give us access to over 15% of the US reserves in the lower 48 we are set for decades to come.

I am sure that NG will go up which is why I am so big on solar hot water. Cost to set up is about $4000 and with minimal maintenance it will last 25 years pumping free heat for house and hot water. That's $160 per year.
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Old 10-21-2008, 10:09 AM   #30
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My ceiling fans do not have 70" blades, this was never posted or implemented. Just to set everyone stright it is a 70" ceiling fan, not 70" blades on a ceiling fan!
Its has been 16 hrs now with the thermostat relocated 2 ft away from original position and no change has become of the relocation.
So i will only assume that my problem is nothing more then my ceiling fans sucking the lower temperatured air from the flloor, and blowing that onto the thermostat causing it to cycle on and off repeatedly when ceiling fans are in operation!
Solution to my problem per: investigation, research, questioning, education, learning...........
I will be going back under the house and insulating the floor joists with insulation, to better stabilize the room temps. at floor level! By doing so I should be able to better and more accuratly maintain a more stable temp in the interior of the lower level floor rooms! And this in turn should allow me to be able to run the 70" ceiling fans(not 70" blades) at a low speed this season without sucking cooler temperatured air from the floor, and thus saving on heating costs, thus providing me a more efficient residense to live in!
Thanks for all the great help, for those that helped!
Thanks for all the critisism for those that offered!
Thanks for the education!
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IGNORANCE IS NOT HAVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF' AND STUPIDITY IS HAVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF' AND NOT USING IT!

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