Thermostat Upgrade On 3 Wire Hydronic System - HVAC - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > HVAC

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2007, 08:57 PM   #1
Try2BHan'D'
 
Greenley77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Hey #1CarrierMan- seems like you're the man with the answers around here. I would like to upgrade an old 3 wire mercury manual thermostat with a programmable 5-1-1 but have found it very difficult to find a compatible thermostat to upgrade to- any advice

I have a 13 yr old hydronic system:
The system consists of
  1. Hydrotherm HCE2-1092 Gas Fired Water Cast Iron Boiler
  2. Fields Controls SWG Sidewall Power Vent (with CK series control)
  3. White Rodgers 1311 102 Zone A Flow Valves (5 zones)
  4. White Rodgers 1E35-910 Mercury Switch Thermostats (1 per zone)
  5. Weil-Mclain ThermaTrim Hydronic Baseboard
Looks something like this (all actual components from online tech manuals)


Here's how I know its a 3 wire system:


Its got Y6, R5, and a 4 (labeled in pic above)

Here's what one of the Zone valves look like at the distribution manifold: (each of the zone valves look like they're jumpered together somehow.


Is there actually a programmable digital thermostat on the market that I can just plug and play? I just bought a Honeywell FocusPro 6000 which says it can handle 3 wire hydronic but all the wiring diagrams show at least 4 wires coming into the unit... I've only got three to give! Also- do you know if my Zone Valves could be considered "Normally Open"? I don't think they are...

Any Help is appreciated

-J

Advertisement

Greenley77 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Greenley77 For This Useful Post:
gdg (11-26-2014)
Old 11-25-2007, 11:39 AM   #2
Try2BHan'D'
 
Greenley77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I think we got it:
Here's the final config

Advertisement


Last edited by Greenley77; 01-29-2008 at 08:29 PM.
Greenley77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 06:13 PM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I am so happy to come across your post. I am having a similiar issue - but I know MUCH LESS about my system than you. It's old...it has Murcury Thermostats and White-Rogers zone-a-flow valves. I have 2 zones in the house.
Your pictures look identical to what I've got to work with. I am just curious why you ended up with a wire in the Y slot of the new thermostat - I thought that was for cooling systems...and unless I'm completely misdirected by your post, your system is heat only. Please help me understand why/how that wiring worked!
kt633 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 08:20 PM   #4
Try2BHan'D'
 
Greenley77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Cool

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I was in the same boat as you were, so I researched the heck out of the problem. With enough searching you can find almost every manual online. It might mean summarizing your system the way I did, but its well worth the knowledge you gain.

My father knew about thermostats so he helped me out. The short answer is "hook it up like that" and it'll work, as to the explanation - it has to do with the picture in this document under Pinciples of Operation about the White Rodgers 1E35-910 and how the zone valves operate. I think the Y acts as relay voltage to close the valve at temp. Thats my guess (I'll challenge the professionals on this site to explain the real reason this config works)- but here's the real test- I'm warm and comfy, and it works... Thanks Dad. FYI- I didn't need to mess with any of the wiring on the zone valves in the basement. I replaced only 1 of 5 thermostats and the other 4 are all still working properly.

Good Luck

Here's a link to the Honeywell FocusPRO TH6110D pictured above in Final Config. Pretty reasonable price- some of the other 3 wire systems I priced were in the 130 - 150 price range. This was under $100 (retail) I think my Dad got it wholesale for $50... Let us know how you make out...

Last edited by Greenley77; 01-29-2008 at 08:33 PM. Reason: added stuff- why else?
Greenley77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 09:13 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I have searched all over due to a similar problem only I have Automag control valves and thermostats. I found this on their website and I think its the answer I have been looking for. Since I have seen this question all over the internet without many answers I am posting this even though the original poster found a different solution that worked with his system. Hopefully it will help someone else. Automag makes a CNV84 relay that adapts a 3wire system to a 2 wire thermostat. I haven't heard from them on price or where to purchase yet. Here is the link, I hope it helps. http://www.automagzonevalve.net/tech...tion=technical
CFSPAWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2008, 06:39 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


After searching all over the place I finally got my Lennox x4146 working with White Rogers 1311-102 3 wire Valve.
Here how it needs to be connected.
Red Wire (5) - R
White Wire (4) - W
Green Wire (6) - Y
Next step is to access the advance options on Lennox x4146 go to 0170 and set it to 5.
Good Luck

THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!
mbibus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2008, 09:38 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 42
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I recently changed old AUTOMAG 3 wire thermostats in my home. I used Ritetemp Model#6022 thermostats that I bought from HomeDepot. It is not that expensive and currently sells for $29.99. It is however very versatile and can be used for many type of heating/cooling systems including zone heating (that uses hot water).
There are 2 types of valves that are used in zoned (hot water based) heating systems namely Motor driven rotary valve and Solenoid valve. Motor driven valve is something that is OFF by default and is powered ON when heat is required, whereas Solenoid valve is always ON and is powered OFF when heat is NOT required. Ritetemp thermostats can handle both types with slightly different wiring.

AUTOMAG is a Solenoid valve system. AUTOMAG zone heating thermostats have 3 wires, colored Red, Blue and White. Here is what I gleaned from AUTOMAG's site about how their thermostats work.


http://www.automagzonevalve.net/tech...tion=technical


========From above Automag link===
With thermostat turned up (calling for heat) there
should be continuity only between "Red & Blue" terminals. With thermostat turned down (satisfied) there should be continuity between only "Red & White".
================

Here is how I connected the existing AUTOMAG wires to the new Ritetemp thermostat to get it working.

Red Wire ==> (RH) Terminal
Blue/Yellow Wire ==> (W) Terminal
White Wire ==> (A) Terminal

I arrived at this based on the following information from Ritetemp thermostat help I have linked below.

http://www.ritetemp-thermostats.com/zoned.html

=============From RiteTemp Link
ZONE HOT WATER HEATING SYSTEMS (3 wires to thermostat)
SOLENOID VALVES
When heat is not requested, RH is connected to A and
holds the solenoid valve in the OFF position. When heat is requested,
RH disconnects from A which lets the solenoid go and
its spring opens the valve. At the same time, RH connects to W
and turns on the boiler. Any zone's thermostat can turn on the
boiler.
=============

Hope this helps.

bugmenot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 08:14 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Hi, thank you for taking time to post your information. It appears that some of the information you took time to post is no longer available. Please re-post the information. I am desperate for assistance and I am in a similar situation.

Thanks!

Bill
bill907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 08:16 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Hi Greenley77,

I need your assistance. It has been nearly a year since you posted your messages, however, I don't see the attachments you referenced. I have a honeywell RTH 6300B programmable thermostat that I'm trying to connect to a three wire heating system (White Rogers Three Way Zone Valve). I called honeywells tech support and I'm not getting very far. Please re-post your documents. thank you!
bill907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 09:14 PM   #10
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,457
Rewards Points: 4,560
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Last I knew. The RTH6300 isn't compatible with that zone valve.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Thank you for responding - I returned to Lowes and bought the RTH 6300B because honeywell's tech support told me the RTH 230B was not compatible but that the RTB 6300B was compatible.

Do you know which programmable thermostats work with a three wire zone valve? It would be best for me if you knew of one compatible with the White Rogers 1311 - 102 available through Home Depot or Lowes. I need to fix it ASAP.

I appreciate any assistance you can offer. THank you!
bill907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 09:39 PM   #12
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,457
Rewards Points: 4,560
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


I'm not aware of Lowes or HD carring any that are compatible.

You may want to see about ordering a thermostat on line.

See if you can find a site that sells the White Rodgers
1F80-0471
It can be set up as programmable, or non programmable. And is capable of 3 wire control.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009, 04:45 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


"Beenthere", thank you for your assistance. Yes, your response was helpful and accurate. I bought the White Rodgers 1f80-0471 programmable thermostat and it works just as it should.

In hope of this information being used by someone else, I will add a few more notes.

I sought out to install a programmable thermostat for the obvious reason: to conserve energy by lowering room temperature while I'm away from the house and/or sleeping.

Before hearing from a contributor to this forum ("beenthere"), I had purchased three different programmable thermostats all of which purportedly work with a "three-wire" heat system. I'm sure they do, though not with systems using heat-only, single stage, and three-wire zone valves, which is what I have.

I have three wires coming out of the wall: Red, White, and Green. The red is from the transformer (I believe), and the white and green are both from the zone valve. White calls for heat subsequently opening the zone valve, while green tells the zone valve the desired room temperature (set at the programmable thermostat) has been met, subsequently closing the zone valve. The White Rodgers IF80-0471 is fully compatible with three-wire zone valves in addition to other wire configurations. Since I am talking about the three-wire zone valve, I'll include a link to a PDF showing the schematic for the IF80-0471: click to download.

Let me tell you which programmable thermostats DO NOT work:
Honeywell RTH 230B
Honeywell RTH 6300B
Hunter 44260

It's worth noting that Home Depot and Lowes do not sell a programmable thermostat that is compatible with a three-wire zone valve. Well, they may in some states but not here in Alaska. It is also worth noting that after my initial purchase of the RTH 230B I called Honeywell's tech support and they instructed me to buy the RTH 6300B, stating it would work; nope, strike two! I tried a local hardware store where a representative told me the "Hunter 44260" would work; nope, strike three! Luckily I wasn't playing baseball, because after using google and landing here (on this forum), I had a fourth chance to connect and knock it out of the park by following "beenthere's" suggestion, buying the White Rodgers IF80-0471 at a local plumbing store.

I hope all of this information is useful. I appreciate the amount of time so many people invest into sharing information on user forums which inevitably save hundreds of dollars. Although I probably lost any possible savings last night while both zone valves were wide open all night. Yeah, it was hot! Even here in Alaska.

Thanks all.

Last edited by bill907; 12-03-2009 at 05:12 PM. Reason: information was left out...
bill907 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009, 05:27 PM   #14
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 26,457
Rewards Points: 4,560
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Glad to been of help.

Yeah. Honeywells tech support, leaves a lot to be desired.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 02:03 AM   #15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Thermostat upgrade on 3 wire hydronic system


Here's my documentation for using a 24vac SPDT relay to control a 3-wire zone valve with a 2-wire thermostat
http://www.geekwisdom.com/dyn/node/234

Advertisement


Last edited by geekwisdom; 01-20-2010 at 12:06 AM. Reason: updated
geekwisdom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
8 wire to 4 wire thermostat help needed dj petey Electrical 5 01-19-2008 10:11 AM
Wiring a Noma Programable Thermostat 111jag General DIY Discussions 1 10-14-2007 11:13 PM
How does a 3 wire 110 v. system operate?? davisrf Electrical 4 08-26-2007 09:35 AM
Tie-in of a Coleman electric furnace nilo HVAC 9 01-03-2007 04:45 PM
8 wire to 4 wire thermostat help needed dj petey HVAC 5 04-15-2006 01:20 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts