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-   -   Taco IFC pump makes noise when it stops (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/taco-ifc-pump-makes-noise-when-stops-41982/)

Addicted 04-07-2009 01:51 PM

Taco IFC pump makes noise when it stops
 
Hello. I'm looking for experience or ideas to guide me in troubleshooting my hot water baseboard system. I have a WM Ultra boiler with Taco 007 pumps. I have a domestic hot water loop with a 007 IFC (no issues). The main heat loop has a "close coupled tee" loop with a 007 IFC, and the house circulator is a regular 007 that splits into two zones (with zone valves). Everything runs and works fine, except when the call-for-heat stops, the system makes a 1 or 2 second rumble as the pumps stop.

All I can think of at the moment is that the IFC is making noise. My first thought is to remove the IFC pump in my heat loop and pull the check valve out of it. I could also swap the IFC pump in the heat loop with the IFC pump in the DHW loop.

Any ideas?

JohnH1 04-11-2009 01:07 PM

Could be zone valve is closing to fast causing water hammer simmilar to domestic piping. Try leaving one of the zone valves open and turning the system off to see what hapens.

Addicted 04-11-2009 07:10 PM

Thanks, I'll try that. :thumbup:

tk03 04-12-2009 10:09 AM

If you are using zone valves you do not want IFC on the pumps. Yank it out. You only use IFC's where it will be the way of checking flow when not required.

Addicted 04-13-2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk03 (Post 258709)
If you are using zone valves you do not want IFC on the pumps. Yank it out. You only use IFC's where it will be the way of checking flow when not required.

I think I need the check valves to make my DHW loop work right. WIthout the check valve, the pump for the DHW loop will tend to send flow around my primary loop instead of through the boiler. Sound right?

Grampa Bud 04-13-2009 12:22 PM

Reread tk03's response. What he said is correct. You don't need the chk valve in the zoned loops. Leave the waterheater loop alone because you are right; you do need the chk in that loop or install a flo-check in the heater loop.

beenthere 04-13-2009 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grampa Bud (Post 259165)
Reread tk03's response. What he said is correct. You don't need the chk valve in the zoned loops. Leave the waterheater loop alone because you are right; you do need the chk in that loop or install a flo-check in the heater loop.

That will depend. On where the zone valves are installed.
If installed on the return. You can get a gravity heat in the heating zones when the Domestic is being heater.

Addicted 04-13-2009 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grampa Bud (Post 259165)
Reread tk03's response. What he said is correct. You don't need the chk valve in the zoned loops. Leave the waterheater loop alone because you are right; you do need the chk in that loop or install a flo-check in the heater loop.

The zone valves only stop flow through the secondary loop. I would only get a little flow though the boiler without a check valve in my primary loop.

Addicted 04-13-2009 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere (Post 259180)
That will depend. On where the zone valves are installed.
If installed on the return. You can get a gravity heat in the heating zones when the Domestic is being heater.

Zone valves are on the returns.

I'm more worried about making the domestic loop actually pump through the boiler. THe flow check is required to prevent the DHW loop from just flowing around my closely spaced tees and not going through the boiler.

Grampa Bud 04-13-2009 01:20 PM

Addicted There is no reason to have flo-chek on any secondary with a zone valve on the feed or return side of the loops. That covers ZONE VALVES. They isolate your loops so there will be no thermal travel. On a DHW secondary without a zone valve you DO need a check valve or flo-chek so that the heater only gets reheated on demand from the aquastat. You would wind up with 180 F water coming out your faucets otherwise. Your primary loop, from your boiler to your boiler array doesn't really need a flo-chek in it, but if you have one already in the loop it's OK. I'm not sure if you have injection flow control between your primary and secondary or not, but WM used to push it as the end all for system control. If this is what you are referring to take a look for a 1/2" valve (manual) on your bypass loop or return from your secondary to your primary. It maybe partially closed and causing cavatation momentarily when the pumps shut down. Pumps get old and loose like me and tend to do funny things with age. Open it up abit and retry it.

Addicted 04-13-2009 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grampa Bud (Post 259207)
Addicted There is no reason to have flo-chek on any secondary with a zone valve on the feed or return side of the loops. That covers ZONE VALVES. They isolate your loops so there will be no thermal travel. On a DHW secondary without a zone valve you DO need a check valve or flo-chek so that the heater only gets reheated on demand from the aquastat. You would wind up with 180 F water coming out your faucets otherwise. Your primary loop, from your boiler to your boiler array doesn't really need a flo-chek in it, but if you have one already in the loop it's OK. I'm not sure if you have injection flow control between your primary and secondary or not, but WM used to push it as the end all for system control. If this is what you are referring to take a look for a 1/2" valve (manual) on your bypass loop or return from your secondary to your primary. It maybe partially closed and causing cavatation momentarily when the pumps shut down. Pumps get old and loose like me and tend to do funny things with age. Open it up abit and retry it.

I agree about the zone valves, and I don't have any flow checks on my secondary loops.

Here's where I'm stuck:
My primary pump doesn't run when the DHW pump runs. Why would the flow go through the boiler if it can just as easily scoot backwards around the primary loop? I want good flowrate through the boiler. As I understand it, that's the whole point of having a primary and secondary loop in the first place. Maybe my assumption that the flow will easily scoot backwards through a non-running pump is incorrect.

I think a check valve is needed to force the DHW loop to flow through the boiler rather than going backwards around the primary loop and starving the boiler flow.

Weil McLain install manual shows the addition of a check valve in primary loop when you add DHW.

I'm not certain about injection flow control, but there is no valving between my closely spaced tees. I assume that's the bypass loop?

Addicted 04-13-2009 03:34 PM

By the way, I appreciate the input. I enjoy being able to discuss intelligently with people who understand this stuff.

tk03 04-13-2009 03:59 PM

Where can we see some pictures of this job. It is getting confusing.

beenthere 04-13-2009 06:55 PM

Zone valves on the return, without a flow check in the supply. Allow gravity heat.

The hot water runs along the top of the pipe, And the cold water runs along the bottom of the pipe.

Usually its not enough to heat the entire loop. But its more then enough to heat/over heat one or 2 rooms.

Addicted 04-14-2009 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere (Post 259386)
Zone valves on the return, without a flow check in the supply. Allow gravity heat.

The hot water runs along the top of the pipe, And the cold water runs along the bottom of the pipe.

Usually its not enough to heat the entire loop. But its more then enough to heat/over heat one or 2 rooms.

You are missing the fact that I have a DHW loop in parallel.


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