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Old 06-16-2008, 07:44 AM   #1
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System change questions


We currently have an oil-fired hot air system that is the original unit to the house (1959). We have to move (remove) the oil tanks so that we can repair a leaky basement wall. This is causing us to seriously think about going with a new gas system, since we already have the gas at the house for the hot water heaters....

We are looking at two scenarios:
#1. New gas-fired hot air furnace in a direct replacement of the existing unit.
#2. New air handler with hot water coil, New gas-fired boiler, to provide heating hot water to the AH, New in-direct hot water heater.

I like #1 for the simplicity, but #2 makes better sence since the two water heaters we have currently are about 20 years old (we had an apartment in the back, but I have plumbed the heaters in parallel) and will need to replaced soon. Additionally, with #2, we would only have one gas-fired appliance instead of 3.

Thoughts, Comments?

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Old 06-17-2008, 09:01 PM   #2
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there is a boiler that can offer the same or better eff as the best furnaces it is a munchkin condensing gas boiler this option makes sense if you have multiple zones or prefer hot water radiant floor .baseboard . or hydroair and they are surprisingly affordable make sure the comp emp has ben trained because the controls are different and they have the best manufacturer support i have every used

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Old 06-17-2008, 09:11 PM   #3
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Ah! The Munchkin! I had forgotten about that one!! I will look into that for sure!

Geo Fan? So, you are a fan of that little 3 cylinder car?
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Old 06-19-2008, 10:09 AM   #4
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My wife said nobody would get it . I am a huge fan of the new tech. geo thermal these are systems that obsorb heat / and release heat to the ground using water or refrigernt to the ground .
I dont know if you realy didnt know that or if I just didnt get the joke its hard to tell in text
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Old 06-19-2008, 12:55 PM   #5
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Nope, I was totally thinking of the Geo Metro 2-door, 3 cylinder, 5 speed car that I used to drive that once got 53 mpg.

Now, Geothermal on the other hand, is a great concept that should be used more frequently!
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:45 PM   #6
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forget about the boiler, go with the furnace and buy the highest efficiency you can afford.
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:20 PM   #7
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I was leaning towards the boiler idea and using hydronics for the domestic hot water, as well as a coil in a new air handler, that being said, the up front costs were quite high.

The new concept is to go with a new high efficiency furnace, using the same d/w I currently have. Oh and definately converting to gas on this.

Additionally, thinking of a tankless water heater to replace the two older gas w/h's I currently use.

Any thoughts here on the Rinnai tankless heaters? I can get one for about $800. Install costs will be minimal, as it is a family affair.
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Old 07-01-2008, 05:05 PM   #8
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Im an effeciency nut so as always ill push another idea on you . consider a solor hot water heater depending on where you live you will get free hot water in the somer and 60-90% in the winter for free these systems are very cheap if they are installed by you and I would be happy to help with the technical 's of them . you would need a combo tank (electric and indirect ) or two tanks but they do pay for themselves ( about 3-6 return on investment) lower end if installed by you
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javan View Post
I was leaning towards the boiler idea and using hydronics for the domestic hot water, as well as a coil in a new air handler, that being said, the up front costs were quite high.

The new concept is to go with a new high efficiency furnace, using the same d/w I currently have. Oh and definately converting to gas on this.

Additionally, thinking of a tankless water heater to replace the two older gas w/h's I currently use.

Any thoughts here on the Rinnai tankless heaters? I can get one for about $800. Install costs will be minimal, as it is a family affair.
if your household has more than 3 members and some like to take long showers forget about tankless and go with a power vented tank, I dont have the time to get into details and numbers but I assure you it would cost you more to run the tankless VS a standard water heater mostly because the cold water temperatures up in NY.

forget about solar too, if wasting your money makes you feel better about yourself I could give you my address feel free to send me as much $$$ as you want my beer funds are running low
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:44 PM   #10
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Hvac tech please change your name. Its embarrasing for the rest of us. Tankless hot water are instant there is no recovery time. the only restriction on them is an instant load i.e. 2 or more showers going at once . shower washing machine dishwasher . they are rated for gal. a minuet but if you exceed that you can put 2 in series and it will work fine hot water all day and no problem. Solor is Not a waste of money for several resons after rebates and other incentive programs there cost is only about twice a normal system with free hot water for years . not for everybody finacialy and legisticly( lots of trees - no southern exposer) but for the right spot they are great. Thowing away money is sending 1 extra dime to those energy company crooks. but I regress hot water heaters with a power venter are great options for condo's or public housing, or for those of us who dont mind uncontrolled condensation on the floor as an exceptable byproduct but I personaly stear clear
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Old 07-02-2008, 08:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geo fan View Post
Hvac tech please change your name. Its embarrasing for the rest of us. Tankless hot water are instant there is no recovery time. the only restriction on them is an instant load i.e. 2 or more showers going at once . shower washing machine dishwasher . they are rated for gal. a minuet but if you exceed that you can put 2 in series and it will work fine hot water all day and no problem. Solor is Not a waste of money for several resons after rebates and other incentive programs there cost is only about twice a normal system with free hot water for years . not for everybody finacialy and legisticly( lots of trees - no southern exposer) but for the right spot they are great. Thowing away money is sending 1 extra dime to those energy company crooks. but I regress hot water heaters with a power venter are great options for condo's or public housing, or for those of us who dont mind uncontrolled condensation on the floor as an exceptable byproduct but I personaly stear clear
when you dont know what you are talking about anything seems possible, do your homework, tankless water heaters are fine in some states same as solar, uphere in NY they are a waste of $$$, again if it makes you feel good then go and do it.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:26 PM   #12
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Knowing that im in northern ct , hold an s2 unlimited journeymen's licence ,and a solor heating liceance . And have installed them in northern putnum county. Not saying anymore negative but I have ben to the classes (although most are manufacturer sponsored) Not to mention the 2 years of post high school tech plus 4 years apprentice pluse 6 years as a journeymen. Now that we got my credentials out of the way. And knowing ny state doesnt require any of those things to call yourself a tech. only that your boss has a contractors licience. Why are you anti-effeceincy. have you ever installed a solor and what manufacturer. If not I understand that they can scare you. But tankless have ben out and in operation for years. water temp does not vary that much If the pipes are below the frost line temps stay steady from 45 - 60 pretty much across america ( they can vary outside that range in what are called hot spots mostly midwest and cal.) before you question that I install geothermal as well .

Last edited by geo fan; 07-02-2008 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 07-02-2008, 05:34 PM   #13
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I’m not anti-efficiency but I’m anti-BS, solar technology works well in places like sunny south Florida or California, here in western NY we get about 10 sunny days a years LOL, reminds me of the city of Buffalo and their nuts administrators decided no long ago to replace all the public lights with solar fixtures, well guess what happened, yes the whole thing was a fiasco and huge waste of taxpayers dollars, they ended up retrofitting every pole back to conventional lights fixtures, wonder why?
Tankless technology in the other hand has been around for many years and the whole concept sounds fantastic but in real life it cost more to operate a tankless unit than a conventional one plus when the darn thing breaks down it cost big money to fix it, most of the convectional tanks manufactures guarantee their units for over 5 years including labor, Rinnai warranty’s one year labor only, if tankless was any good I would be selling them.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:00 PM   #14
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how is a 90% tanked heater that has to maintan that temp on a high mass 24-7 more eff then a 95% burner/exchanger that only fires on demand. Back to the solor you do need sun. but temp doesnt effect them that much the heating tubes are inside a vacumed tube that doesnt transfer any heat (except the reflected radiation not absorbed ) So we can agree to disagree I suppose but Its a new world get on board or out of the way . By the way I dont recomend cheap products I recomend good products. And if they didnt work they wouldnt sell at all .The market has spoken. p.p.p.p.s photovoltaics do have a long way to go no argument there but its apples and oranges
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:55 AM   #15
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So, the plan is still to go with a gas fired Furnace and the Rinnai water heater.

Any opinions here about the York Affinity series? PM9?

Currently not adding AC, but it may be an option next year.

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