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Old 10-03-2010, 03:38 PM   #16
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
The profit margins for some very small independant dealers is VERY low where I am. They cutthroat each other (another story).
Good. That's free competition. If manufacturers were setting minimum advertised pricing on equipment sales to protect the network, or contractors are talking with each other (car dealers have dealers' association meeting and such, i wouldn't be surprised if HVAC'ers did too) about pricing, something other than the market affects the price.

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Drives them mad when they see a DIYer at the parts house taking away even more of their earning potential. They lean on the parts house threaten to take their biz elsewhere so the parts house agrees to not sell to DIYers.
Correct, hence my prior statement, boycotting/bullying their supply chain. "we won't carry/install/service your brand unless you restrict access to products". I believe Rheem has quite dictating policies all the way through their supply chain. They regulate how their wholesaler may sell their products.

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Also saves them a LOT of hassle with DIYers parts changing/frying boards etc when they don't know what they are doing and trying to return them. Folks, this is democracy, parts houses have the right to do what ever they want with no gov't interference. Funny that I cannot go to GMs central parts depot and buy my parts there at dealer cost.
I know plenty of techs who are good at ducting, but horrible with controls, don't know how to read schematics or troubleshoot equipment without or even with using flow chart provided in service manual. You and I know that HVAC service techs, as well as auto mechanics often throw parts at problems without properly diagnosing, because they lack the skills.

Hence anti-competitive behavior. Professionals should focus on competency that can not be replaced. If they're getting upset knowing DIYers can get professional coil cleaner, capacitors, dampers, or HSI element, its an admission that it isn't their professional skills that keeps their earning potential. They're mad, because for each HSI element a DIYer gets their hand on, it costs a contractor somewhere the +$40 markup on HSI part and $100+ service call.

If it was their skills and DIYer wouldn't know what to do anyways even if they got the parts, why would contractors be upset the slightest bit?

Home Depot, Fry's have to deal with customer fried electronic components too. When manufacturers test items that were returned as defective, they're often just fine, including those returned by service techs.

Supply houses should simply have pricing, fiscal year bill credit, or simple minimum purchase amount. It's not like someone just walked in and asked to buy on net 30 with no credit reference.

Professional photographers don't complain even if pro equipment are made available to anyone willing and able to purchase them. Because, the basis of competition is skills, not someone simply having the gear.

I can reasonably see how manufacturers would only work with factory authorized contractors for warranty work.

I do think its the industry trend to be a snob about the whole thing. Another HVAC forum restricts access to a lot of information unless you register as a professional and provide them with a business license and discussion of pricing on components is PROHIBITED. What does that tell ya?

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Old 10-03-2010, 03:52 PM   #17
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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If they sold it to the public for the same price. Then it wouldn't be wholesale pricing anymore. Look up the definition of wholesale.

It would then be retail. Since the general public is retail.
Suppliers are supposed to sell at the same price to anyone buying same/similar items in similar quantities. I didn't stipulate I should get the same price for one item purchase as someone purchasing similar items by full truck load.

If a supplier sells a pallet of widget to supplier owner's cousin's contractor, they're supposed to give same pricing to other customers buying the same widget in same quantity.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:13 PM   #18
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


Much of it is a business decision. A supplier can recognize different types of customers and should price accordingly. Only a fool will waste employee's time on a small sale to a one-time customer that wants more education and help a DIYer and not give service to a regular customer that just orders what he knows he needs and wants to get it quick since the contractor makes money on the job and eventually is much more valuable.

Frustrating to some DIYers, but it is the real world. For the small amount of annual purchases and time involved.

Dick
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:27 PM   #19
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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Much of it is a business decision. A supplier can recognize different types of customers and should price accordingly. Only a fool will waste employee's time on a small sale to a one-time customer that wants more education and help a DIYer and not give service to a regular customer that just orders what he knows he needs and wants to get it quick since the contractor makes money on the job and eventually is much more valuable.

Frustrating to some DIYers, but it is the real world. For the small amount of annual purchases and time involved.

Dick
I was there, with specific part #. Ready to pay and carry.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:44 PM   #20
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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Originally Posted by HVAC_NW View Post
Suppliers are supposed to sell at the same price to anyone buying same/similar items in similar quantities. I didn't stipulate I should get the same price for one item purchase as someone purchasing similar items by full truck load.

If a supplier sells a pallet of widget to supplier owner's cousin's contractor, they're supposed to give same pricing to other customers buying the same widget in same quantity.
In your make believe world maybe.

I don't know what your complaining about.

We told you this would happen. Apparently you didn't believe us. So now your angry, that you were wrong.

So while you complain online. And change nothing about that supplier. Your still out of heat. And still don't have the part.

So what good is your complaining to us doing. NOTHING.

You might get better results if you storm back into that supply house tomorrow and explain your business beliefs to them. Cause we aren't going to change anything for you.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:20 PM   #21
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


It means I have to call someone to do it for me, because they've established a scheme to ensure contractors get service call jobs for things you can easily do yourself.

Yes, so in the end, because of this industry's anti-competitive practice, and pressure by contractors to hinder competition, I'm stuck with wasting money unnecessarily.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:29 PM   #22
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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It means I have to call someone to do it for me, because they've established a scheme to ensure contractors get service call jobs for things you can easily do yourself.

Yes, so in the end, because of this industry's anti-competitive practice, and pressure by contractors to hinder competition, I'm stuck with wasting money unnecessarily.
It will be less money, then the bandwidth you wasted complaining about something this site isn't able to change.


While your out running around tomorrow. Stop by the store and pick up some Hydrocodone for me. I don't have a scrip for them. But I bet those darn doctors in your area, haven't made it that you have to pay them to write you a scrip to get it yet. So you can just walk in and get it without paying extra money for the scrip.

While your at it. Pick up an oxygen generator for me too. Around here. You need a doctor to write a scrip to get one. Imagine that. needing a scrip for something that can save your life.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:35 PM   #23
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


I didn't realize we expect change by posting here. Do you post things here and expect change every time? I certainly wasn't expecting change.

Apples to oranges.

You're talking about things that require prescription by law.

I wasn't trying to buy ozone depleting refrigerant, or restricted use pesticide.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:05 PM   #24
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


Around here. They have a sign on entrence the door "contractors/wholesale only''

No supprise to me.. Why whine about it...In the other thread you were told
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:58 PM   #25
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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I didn't realize we expect change by posting here. Do you post things here and expect change every time? I certainly wasn't expecting change.

Apples to oranges.

You're talking about things that require prescription by law.

I wasn't trying to buy ozone depleting refrigerant, or restricted use pesticide.

If you didn't expect change. Then why did you come here to whine about it. when you were already told about it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:29 AM   #26
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
HVAC stuff seems to be hard to find in general. Even ductwork. Last time I went to HD I pretty much emptied them out of their inventory. They only sell a few of everything, but not enough for a large project. I could see it being hard for a DIYer wanting to do ductwork for a whole house, for example.

I would love if they sold more advanced stuff, like dampers. I would love to zone my house at some point but getting the parts would not be easy.
I can buy anything I need duct work wise. It's just so much more than the parts house, though.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:36 AM   #27
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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Contractors do not enjoy competition and they enjoy price fixing through restricting, boycotting or bullying their supply chain.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/new...v00613/289009/

Kichler Lighting came up with anti-competitive price fixing scheme to prohibit its customers from advertising its products below vertically ordered pricing structure for no other reason than preventing competition.

Quoting Kichler, it made the following statement for its price fixing scheme:
“Due to the growth of the Internet channel of commerce, we are seeing more and more of our distributors losing sales to these low price Internet web sites."

Kichler admitted it was policing point-of-sale price in order to protect "traditional" contractors and showrooms, which is just another way of saying anti-competitive practice.

The only reason I can see for supply house not wishing to give access to parts at wholesale price to the public is that it creates competition for contractors and the contractors pressure them to not do so.

Just imagine what it would be like when car parts only become available for purchase by licensed mechanic with tax ID on account and you're forced to take it to a shop and pay labor and parts markup only because you can't get parts. It's the same logic.
So get your state cert and buy part and stop whining.

You have made HVAC part of your screen name, so live up toit,
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:49 AM   #28
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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So get your state cert and buy part and stop whining.

You have made HVAC part of your screen name, so live up toit,
You came in after I did and complained about my user name... So much for "dignity for pros"
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:54 AM   #29
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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I know plenty of techs who are good at ducting, but horrible with controls, don't know how to read schematics or
I do think its the industry trend to be a snob about the whole thing. Another HVAC forum restricts access to a lot of information unless you register as a professional and provide them with a business license and discussion of pricing on components is PROHIBITED. [COLOR=Red
What does that tell[/COLOR] ya?
That you have been to hvac talk
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:22 AM   #30
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Supply houses are really stuck-up about not selling to DIYers


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You came in after I did and complained about my user name... So much for "dignity for pros"
So much for you being an hvac professional.

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