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-   -   Sub is swapping Amana for Goodman (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/sub-swapping-amana-goodman-6060/)

Dragon 01-22-2007 02:39 PM

Sub is swapping Amana for Goodman
 
Hi there,
Okay, my HVAC sub-contractor has installed a Goodman air handler and is going to install a matching Goodman AC condenser. When I went back and looked at the original bid paperwork I see they specified Amana. I don’t have the actual model number of what Goodman product is being installed with me right now, I’ll get it later.

Are Amana and Goodman priced the same? What about quality/performance?

Doing a little internet research it appears that both Amana & Goodman have the same manufacturer.

Are they the same though?

Did I get bid for a higher priced Amana unit and then had a lower priced Goodman unit installed; with the difference going to the HVAC installer’s bottom line?

The original bid specified an:

Amana RCE 42 14 Seer 3 ˝ ton AC unit
Amana MBE 1600 variable speed blower coil unit

What they are installing is Goodman branded products. Is this acceptable? Is this a case where getting the Goodman stuff would be better or is it worse?

___________________________

It gets even better though……

I stopped by the worksite and spoke to the field guy doing the actual installation. He said that the Goodman and Amana are exactly the same, just different labels. I asked if he would give me a quick rundown of what he was installing. He informed me that the units being installed were 2 ˝ ton units. That is that the coils and condenser were 2 ˝ tons. The blower he said was the 3 ton 1200cfm unit as the blowers did not come in ˝ ton sizes.

So now it appears to me I was bid for a 3 ˝ ton system and am now getting a 2 ˝ ton system. Sounds really fishy to me. I am not as worried about the size of the unit as the house we are building is ICF (insulated concrete forms) and I was very concerned about the system being oversized for the application. What I am concerned about is paying through the nose for something I am not even receiving.

Seeing as they are installing a smaller system I would anticipate that I should be given a credit back. How much (ballpark) would this difference be between the two different sized systems?

Thanks in advance for reading my post. I hope you found it interesting and I hope you can provide me with a little insight. I am going to post a separate thread about the boiler they are installing, same type of issue.

Gary

#CARRIERMAN 01-22-2007 05:15 PM

Hi Dragon

Goodman and Amana are the same company. However thank your contractor for swapping the Goodman for the Amana. The Amana equipment has twice the warranty that the Goodman version does. They are both about the same in quality, "cheap".

Good luck
Rusty

Dragon 01-22-2007 05:47 PM

Carrierman,
I think you got my post backwards.

The original bid said they were going to put in Amana but what they are actually putting in now is Goodman.

So from your post I take it that the Amana has double the warranty of Goodman? Is this correct?

Does that translate into the Amana being the more expensive brand versus the Goodman?

Thanks....

hennyh 01-23-2007 10:57 AM

Did he do a manual J load calc. prior to the bid? You never guess at capacity!!

I'd suggest you raise the issue with the contractor. If you need 2.5 ton but the bid said 3.5 he owes you money. If you really need to 3.5 ton unit and got a 2.5 ton unit you'll never be satisfied with it's performance.

I'd also make sure you aren't shortchanged any warranty differences.

Your right to get all this straightened out now.

Christopher 01-23-2007 01:31 PM

Gary,

Contract issues aside, the most common error in HVAC installations is installing a heating/cooling unit that is too large for the space being conditioned.

...Christopher

#CARRIERMAN 01-23-2007 02:08 PM

Hi Dragon

I missed part of the original post. I am not sure why your sub contractor is doing what he is doing. As far as Goodman verses Amana, the Amana usually has a better warranty than the Goodman. The thing that threw the red flag for me is what hennyh discovered. Why would he bid one size and install another. This tells me he is either a fly by nighter or just an idiot. What will happen if you are general, when the equipment does not perform properly do to undersizing. You will get the finacial and the reputation problem of the new homeowner. As far as apples to oranges or Goodman to Amana that will be the least of your worries with this one. Make him stand up to his end of the contract, or fire him and get someone that will. Don't let this become your problem.

Good luck
Rusty

Furnace_dude 01-24-2007 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #CARRIERMAN (Post 30887)
Hi Dragon

Goodman and Amana are the same company. However thank your contractor for swapping the Goodman for the Amana. The Amana equipment has twice the warranty that the Goodman version does. They are both about the same in quality, "cheap".

Good luck
Rusty


actually, goodman has become quite a competitor in the hvac industry, yeah, they are affordable but they use copeland compressors made here in sidney ohio in the great USA, not that bristol cr@p, goodmans new furnaces use amana heat exchangers and the units have one of the best warranties on the market!

http://www.djsonline.com/goodmanvstrane.htm

the link is safe:thumbsup:

#CARRIERMAN 01-24-2007 12:23 PM

Hi Dragon

Furnace dude is correct, Goodman company has come a long way. I was basing my opinion off of the knowledge of the equipment. We sell the Amana version as our builders model. When you set it beside a Carrier there is a day and night difference in quality. The Goodman version is a lot cheaper built than a Carrier. The outer casing on the Goodman built equipment is a thin aluminum and the screws strip out the first time you tighten them, Carrier is about 24 gauge metal. That was why I made that response, I don't mean to sound as though I am bad mouthing, I was just stating a fact. Sorry if I said anything that was inappropriate.

Rusty

Furnace_dude 01-24-2007 12:27 PM

ive never had a problem with stripping screws out on a goodman but nothing wrong was said

Dragon 01-24-2007 03:24 PM

Thanks for the replies. Here is what I have learned.

I addressed the issue with my builders project manager for our house. He did not know what was going either and also wanted to know what was happening.

The answer received back from the HVAC contractor was that they initially bid the house at the maximum level for equipment that they feel may be required. He explained that they do this because the builders demand a reply and turn around on the quote in a short period of time. By biding at the maximum that may be needed for the job they are covered when they have the time to work all the calculations and determine the appropriate system. In my case it is smaller and I will be seeing a credit reflected in their final billing. What they do not want to do is bid it too low and then have to upcharge on the backend because their initial estimate was incorrect. It would have been nice if that was explanined up front.

Maybe it is a load of "you know what" but at least I am going to be seeing the $$$ in my pocket and it won't just dissapear somewhere. I wonder how many never see that credit come back to them?

As to the difference between the two systems. They stated that the warranty between them was exactly the same. I think I am going to ask for that in writing however.....

The crews on the jobsite are very professional and the installation of the equipment looks to be very good. Not that I am an expert but even a layman can see when someone takes the time to do a job properly and make sure things fit togethery cleanly, etc. So at least I am not worried about that.

Thanks for the feedback. It has been a long haul getting this house built.

hennyh 01-24-2007 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon (Post 31121)
Thanks for the replies. Here is what I have learned.

I addressed the issue with my builders project manager for our house. He did not know what was going either and also wanted to know what was happening.

The answer received back from the HVAC contractor was that they initially bid the house at the maximum level for equipment that they feel may be required. He explained that they do this because the builders demand a reply and turn around on the quote in a short period of time. By biding at the maximum that may be needed for the job they are covered when they have the time to work all the calculations and determine the appropriate system. In my case it is smaller and I will be seeing a credit reflected in their final billing. What they do not want to do is bid it too low and then have to upcharge on the backend because their initial estimate was incorrect. It would have been nice if that was explanined up front.

Maybe it is a load of "you know what" but at least I am going to be seeing the $$$ in my pocket and it won't just dissapear somewhere. I wonder how many never see that credit come back to them?

As to the difference between the two systems. They stated that the warranty between them was exactly the same. I think I am going to ask for that in writing however.....

The crews on the jobsite are very professional and the installation of the equipment looks to be very good. Not that I am an expert but even a layman can see when someone takes the time to do a job properly and make sure things fit togethery cleanly, etc. So at least I am not worried about that.

Thanks for the feedback. It has been a long haul getting this house built.

I'd ask for a copy of all the detailed load calculations since he claimed he did them after the worst case bid was submitted. It could be legitimate but I still smell a rat.

zunk 01-25-2007 06:38 PM

Actually they both have the same warranty- all equipment is 10 years parts, incl. the A/H. They newer warranty started Jan1. If you go to the SEER 16 units, it's a lifetime compressor. This is about as good a warranty as I've seen, which is why I'm getting a Goodman heat pump.
I'm curious though Carrierman, and I respect your opinion, what makes you say they're cheap? It seems to me the innards are very similar in most brands- they usually have the same Copeland comp., standard copper coils, PC boards made by a small number of contractors, none made in house. The rest isjust wiring and a cabinet. What is the factor that sets them apart? I have noticed when doing research for brands that all the contractors seem to have diiferent strong opinions on what is good and what's crap. There doesn't seem to be a consensus. It kind of reminds me of mechanics with preferences for motor oil.
I have read that the most important thing is not the equipment, but who and how it's installed. Do you agree with that?
Thanks, Zunk

rjordan392 01-25-2007 07:26 PM

The Goodman brand seems to stick out the most when it comes to needing repairs more then others. But the reason may be because Goodman sells directly to the public and if the public does not understand HVAC theory and the install is wrong, then repairs will be frequent. I don't know if anyone is keeping a tally between professional installs vs homeowner installs when these units breakdown.

zunk 01-25-2007 07:41 PM

rjordan392,
I agree. Goodman is one of the few that sells to independentsm most distributors won't even sell you a unit unless you're a contractor listed with them, even with the EPA CFC licence.
You can buy Goodman units at many internet dealers. That means a lot of DIYers, which translates to more bad installs. Other than that, they are the second biggest HP mfgr, and they have about the best warranty. That's why I decided to buy the unit and have a contractor install it. Hopefully I'm going the right way.

Furnace_dude 01-26-2007 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zunk (Post 31246)
rjordan392,
I agree. Goodman is one of the few that sells to independentsm most distributors won't even sell you a unit unless you're a contractor listed with them, even with the EPA CFC licence.
You can buy Goodman units at many internet dealers. That means a lot of DIYers, which translates to more bad installs. Other than that, they are the second biggest HP mfgr, and they have about the best warranty. That's why I decided to buy the unit and have a contractor install it. Hopefully I'm going the right way.


i'd proudly install goodman products in my house!!!


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