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sevendustweb 06-06-2013 10:09 AM

Stagnant Air Flow in Master Bedroom
 
Hello:


I have a Trane 15 SEER unit installed to service the second floor of my house. The second floor has three bedrooms, including a master bedroom and two guest bedrooms.


At night, my wife complains that the master bedroom is "stuffy" and has "stagnant air." Each bedroom has a ceiling fan. Because the guest bedrooms are much smaller than the master bedrooms, the beds in those rooms are directly under a ceiling fan, which makes the rooms feel much cooler at night.


Below is picture showing the layout and dimensions of the master bedroom. The room, which is 22' long, features two HVAC ducts. I am wondering whether additional HVAC ducts should be installed, or whether additional fans should be installed.


I also have a problem with my ceiling fan. The fan is 72" wide but is centered in the room, not over the bed itself. My wife is unhappy because the fan does not operate as fast as the fans in the guest room, and thus does not give the sensation that air is being circulated in the room.


Any suggestions on how to best deal with this stagnant air flow problem?


<IMG src="http://s22.postimg.org/fux85d3e9/Master_Bedroom_Layout.jpg">
http://s22.postimg.org/fux85d3e9/Mas...oom_Layout.jpg

ddawg16 06-06-2013 10:36 AM

"Wife"? "Stagnant"? I better not comment......

I really doubt adding more vents will do much unless one is over the bed. With the bed in the corner, your not getting airflow over there.

Have you tried running the fan in reverse?

Also...is there are return air vent in the room or does the air just exit via under the door?

sevendustweb 06-06-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddawg16 (Post 1196245)
"Wife"? "Stagnant"? I better not comment......

I really doubt adding more vents will do much unless one is over the bed. With the bed in the corner, your not getting airflow over there.

Have you tried running the fan in reverse?

Also...is there are return air vent in the room or does the air just exit via under the door?

The fan is running in reverse. An air return is located in the hallway outside of the bedroom. We just started leaving the door open at night to help with airflow. Otherwise, yes, it would exit under the door.

REP 06-06-2013 02:06 PM

Nice comfortable homes have return airs in every room except kitchen and bathroom.Cheap homes have one return in the hall.I'm sorry,I didn't make that rule its just what it is.
Return air performs two functions.One is to make sure the Furnace/air conditioner recieves enough air to operate properly and two is that it gives the old air in rooms someplace to go when newly conditioned air enters those rooms making the rooms as comfortable as is possible.
I say this not to make you upset,but it is just the way it is.Builders haire the cheapest HVAC contrators they can find and single returns are way way cheaper so thats what you get.Home owners generally have no idea how a home becomes comfortable so they don't demand the better way and cheap contractors get away with it all the time.

sevendustweb 06-06-2013 02:36 PM

Returns
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by REP (Post 1196353)
Nice comfortable homes have return airs in every room except kitchen and bathroom.Cheap homes have one return in the hall.I'm sorry,I didn't make that rule its just what it is.
Return air performs two functions.One is to make sure the Furnace/air conditioner recieves enough air to operate properly and two is that it gives the old air in rooms someplace to go when newly conditioned air enters those rooms making the rooms as comfortable as is possible.
I say this not to make you upset,but it is just the way it is.Builders haire the cheapest HVAC contrators they can find and single returns are way way cheaper so thats what you get.Home owners generally have no idea how a home becomes comfortable so they don't demand the better way and cheap contractors get away with it all the time.

My house was built in the 1930s. The air handler in the attic is somewhat old. Perhaps newer homes have returns in every room (except for kitchens and bathrooms), but the older homes I have seen do not.

TarheelTerp 06-06-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevendustweb (Post 1196373)
Perhaps newer homes have returns in every room ...but the older homes I have seen do not.

newer = 1950's forward (when AC had become common).

It's very unlikely that your 1930's house had AC when new.
Consequently, EVERYthing about the AC there is "make do".

No matter how much cool air you push into any room/area it still needs to flow back to the blower to be pushed out again. If/when the room/area has a door that is closed or is far from the return duct you get the sort of complaint that your wife has.

It is what it is.

biggles 06-06-2013 04:12 PM

on that fan is it going CCW looking up at it blowing down...the stagnant air did it change? drop so magazines on all the other room registers if on the fllor... to see if it pushes the air to that bedroom...flex fell off retricted...?

sevendustweb 06-06-2013 04:16 PM

Counterclockwise fan motion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by biggles (Post 1196431)
on that fan is it going CCW looking up at it blowing down...the stagnant air did it change? drop so magazines on all the other room registers if on the fllor... to see if it pushes the air to that bedroom...flex fell off retricted...?


Yes, the fan is spinning counterclockwise. I am not sure what you mean in the rest of your post.

TarheelTerp 06-06-2013 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevendustweb (Post 1196435)
I am not sure what you mean in the rest of your post.

The octopus like arms of flexible duct in the attic.

Assuming the system is (was) capable of keeping you cool in the past and only recently has not been doing so you should look at the equipment itself. The flex duct is a low hanging fruit, common and easily solved problem.

sevendustweb 06-06-2013 04:28 PM

Flex Duct, etc.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1196443)
The octopus like arms of flexible duct in the attic.

Assuming the system is (was) capable of keeping you cool in the past and only recently has not been doing so you should look at the equipment itself. The flex duct is a low hanging fruit, common and easily solved problem.

The problem is that I bought the house in November 2012. I have never spent a summer in the house (hot as hell in SC), so I have no way of comparing the system.

I had a "green energy" contractor inspect the flex duct in my attic (which is insulated wiith spray foam) and reseat each HVAC register (using spray foam). He claims (I have not seen the final report as there is more work to be done) that the air leakage in my attic should be "minimal" (I will believe it when I see it).

This may be a dumb question, but if I have a newer condenser outside but a much older air handler inside, will the older air handler cause my system to have problems?

TarheelTerp 06-06-2013 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevendustweb (Post 1196448)
The problem is that I bought the house in November 2012. I have never spent a summer in the house (hot as hell in SC)...

Insulation will be at least as big an issue.

Quote:

I had a "green energy" contractor inspect the flex duct in my attic
He claims...
You need to get up there yourself. Have a good flashlight. KNOW.

Quote:

...if I have a newer condenser outside but a much older (evaporator coil) inside, will the older (evaporator coil) cause my system to have problems?
If the two HVAC components are close in size to one another it shouldn't be an issue (subject to twenty variables that I can't address). The air handler is just a box with a fan inside.

Either the blower motor is spinning or it isn't. But this is where the duct connections and sealing and so forth comes into play.

wkearney99 06-06-2013 07:12 PM

Yeah, I'd start by checking whether the flow in the master is the same as other rooms.

It really helps to understand how the ducting is routed. Once you know that it's easier to understand and perhaps work around how the system is set up. When we demo'd our 50's era house we finally discovered why the master was never the same as other rooms... there was an inline damper... hidden behind an overbuilt paneled and drywalled ceiling bulkhead. Damned thing was almost completely closed. With all the turns and length of the runs there was no easy way to have found it. But, in retrospect, an airflow measurement would probably have highlighted that as a possibility. Still wouldn't have helped FIND it though...

biggles 06-06-2013 07:30 PM

if you have floor registers dropping magazines on the rooms furtherest away from the problem room will force more air as they get blocked.run the system in FAN ONLY.

Windows on Wash 06-06-2013 08:39 PM

Did the condition lessen with the door open?

Poor balance and lack of return air in the room will certainly hurt circulation as will poor volute out of the supply side registers.

Get up there and take pictures of the ductwork.

old_squid 06-06-2013 08:41 PM

Stagnant air flow and uncomfortable feeling are both perceptional explanations that need to be better defined to come to some kind of conclusion as to what may be the issue(s).

Questions I would be asking would be:
What temperature and humidity level does the system maintain?
Does the rest of the house feel "good" to you? IE: Have you tried sleeping for one night in another bedroom and seeing if that room is perfect or has the same "feeling"?
Describe what your experiencing when it feels stuffy or that the air is stagnant.

"Usually" stuffiness and stagnant air feelings are the way your body reacts to higher humidity levels than what you feel comfortable with. These feelings are exaggerated when in bed and covered up.

From more than a thousand miles away I'd suspect that the system is not controlling the indoor humidity to a low enough level. I say this because the usual reaction to too high of humidity is to try and increase air flow to make your body sense that it's more comfortable.

Just a few thoughts with limited information.


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