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Old 07-25-2011, 10:40 PM   #16
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split system, high humidity


Hi DryDog, thanks for the comments:

I live in Connecticut, its humid where I am only during the July August time frames, well I'm sure you know.

Interesting you should mention the thermostat.

We have problems with the A/C after a few weeks it was installed. The installer washed his hands of it.

When I brought in someone else, he noticed the supply (chamber) was wrong. He basically said that they made it big enough to fit the takeoffs. This was the cause a lot of back pressure and harmonics inside the return plenum. He retro'ed a nice supply pipe that resembles something like an anti matter chamber (sorry), which when finished, pushed more air then we every felt at the same air handler configurations.

Well when he was finished, he traded out my ritetemp 8022C with a Honeywell visionPRO 8000. Thats when I noticed the air handler cycling every 15 minutes. But I was thinking that the air was now passing the thermostat faster and was cooling down quicker, so I let it go.

Do you think the honeywell might be partial cause of the issue? The ritetemp has a swing control that I set for 2 degrees, the Honeywell uses a different function Cool Temperature control, it set to 1. Choose if room does not reach cool setting after recovery.

Any opinions of the choice of thermostats?

I always check the ducts there was no leaks. My windows do leak and it is something I'm looking into. Well more than that, My house was built in the late 80's and still have the original double pane glass in them. I'm trying to remember the make of them so that I can replace the weather striping. They were a big company I think the name started with a W and was targeted by Home Depot, back then when HD wanted to put every window maker out of business. I wish I could remember the name so that I can get those pieces between the windows.

In the next coming days I plan to hold the temp at 72 degrees and watch for ice to build. Maybe it will do something to the humidity as well, I was told, you need to get the moisture out of everything. I'm not sure a day of cycles will do that.

Anyway it sucks doing this on my own, thank everyone for the help. Does it make sense to drop back and punt with a 3.5 compressor and reconfigure the air handler?


-pauli

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Old 07-26-2011, 05:06 AM   #17
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split system, high humidity


Check to see what the CPH is set for on your thermostat. Set it to 2.

The cool setting your talking about, is only a setting that effects it when coming out of temp set back.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:05 AM   #18
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split system, high humidity


Sorry to hear that your (original) installer treated you poorly. I believe that your situation can be improved with some work, and quite possibly some $$$ outlay.

Poor duct work appears to be an epidemic in most areas. Quite sad when I see a homeowner pay for the latest greatest high end system and it is connected to the original (poor) duct work. Duct work does not have a direct effect on humidity, but it will affect the efficiency of your air handler and the comfort of your home in a large way. I've only visited a couple of houses that I felt had good duct work originally installed; every other house had problems. I've corrected duct work issues in every house I've owned - since just moving in is not enough work....

The Honeywell VisionPro 8000 is a good thermostat (in my opinion). beenthere is correct that your Honeywell will cycle the system based on the CPH (cycle per hour) setting. With a CPH of 2 your system will have two run cycles each hour. The only knock on your thermostat is that it is a very capable thermostat with many settings that can be confusing to the average homeowner. Typically these thermostats are set up and commissioned by the HVAC contractor because of the complexity. Read through your manual and/or check out the Honeywell web site to learn about your thermostat. You may want to get your contractor back to help if needed.

If your air handler and ducts are located in your attic (which I assume is not conditioned), a leak in the attic can cause large amounts of outdoor (or attic) air to enter your home. This can swing the humidity levels in your house when the system operates. Leaks may be easy or difficult to to find depending on the accessibility and configuration of your A/C system and attic.

Windows. Most houses I've visited have other leakage problems that should be addressed before the windows. Older double pane windows work well if the glass packs are intact and the sash/frame seals are good. Add storm/screen windows on the outside and you have a pretty good window system for your area. I often see quite a bit of open leakage area under sill plates, and around rim/band joists (sometimes see light) that will reduce infiltration more than replacing serviceable windows. Ceiling penetrations into the attic are other common leak paths.

I am an advocate of improving the building enclosure; unfortunately most HVAC contractors are not able to offer this service. You might consider hiring an energy rater in your area to come and review your house. A good rater will give you a report (and show you during a walk-thru) the problems found with your house. They should also suggest possible corrective actions and usually can help you understand the probable payback of the investment to fix the problems. Often there are some improvements that you can DIY without hiring a contractor. Improving the enclosure is very efficient as it reduces the energy required to condition your house and improves the comfort within your house. A word of warning; you need to get a reasonable amount of fresh air into your house while it is occupied - if you tighten it up to the point where natural ventilation can not supply enough fresh air, you will need to add mechanical ventilation.

Your house is a sponge - it is constructed of many hygroscopic materials that will adsorb and desorb water. Many of these materials will take days to reach an equilibrium if you change the temperature and humidity inside your house. A day of low temperature setting may lower the dew point of the air within your house, but it will not dry out the house materials. You should have an air change in your house at least every 5 to 6 hours, so your humidity will be back a few hours after you set your thermostat back up if nothing else is changed.

Replacing equipment - This depends on the age/efficiency/cost of your equipment. If you can make a payback/comfort argument for replacement, then go ahead. If the equipment is relatively new with plenty of life left, I doubt you will get you payback from a replacement. If your equipment is new, but (you believe) over sized, I suggest you consider making your investment in improving the building enclosure and adding a whole house dehumidifier that ventilates with conditioned air, rather than changing the A/C system - you will have a comfortable and efficient house (even with the over sized A/C). With a dehumidifier controlling humidity independently, you may be comfortable at a higher temperature setting on your thermostat with a reduction in A/C run time. If/when you have the A/C replaced, ask the HVAC contractor for a manual J and manual D, possibly a manual S report- a good energy rater can help to determine if the HVAC contractor has properly specified the system/duct work for your house. Many contractors simply use rules of thumb (ton/XXXsf, replace with same size unit) when replacing systems. Doing this properly will likely cost some $$ versus going with the low bid.

Unfortunately the investment to make your house more comfortable and efficient does not (superficially) enhance it's value as much as aesthetic upgrades. Comfort and efficiency are not visually apparent to a buyer, and many buyers are blissfully unaware of the comfort/efficiency of a house when they close. Only after they move in, do they become aware of the truth. Too bad that comfort and efficiency quickly become much more important than those gorgeous granite counter tops.

http://yourhome.honeywell.com/home/p...onpro+8000.htm
http://www.resnet.us/directory/raters
http://www.ultra-aire.com/

Good luck with your upgrades.
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Old 07-26-2011, 07:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Check to see what the CPH is set for on your thermostat. Set it to 2.

The cool setting your talking about, is only a setting that effects it when coming out of temp set back.

Hey Beenthere:

Thanks for all your help, I'm thinking that the thermostat setting is 220 1st stage compressor cycle rate, was already set at 2.

Should I go for 1 or 4?

Thanks again for the advice.

-pauli
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:46 PM   #20
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Usually factory setting is 3. 4 would give you more cycles, and remove less humidity. 1 will tend to over shoot temp, and may allow humidity to build up. See what it is actually set for.
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Usually factory setting is 3. 4 would give you more cycles, and remove less humidity. 1 will tend to over shoot temp, and may allow humidity to build up. See what it is actually set for.

This unit does not have a 3 for settings, 1,2,4,5,6 CPH
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Old 07-26-2011, 08:56 PM   #22
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What model 8000 do you have that doesn't have a 3 setting for CPH?
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauli View Post
This unit does not have a 3 for settings, 1,2,4,5,6 CPH
oops, I read the book wrong and checked it out just to be sure my notes were accurate, it set at a 2. Remember, I had someone come in who fixed my supply duct, he gave me the thermostat and programmed it for me, I remember he got the heat side wrong #240, he set it to a three: Hot water systems with 90 % efficiency. Mine is around 85 /87 %, I had noticed that the rooms were colder than they used to be in the winter, so he suggested I set it to 2, which worked for us.

I have a note in my book that I made, an observation, the lower the CPH the longer the ON/Off time. Did I get it right?

-pauli

Last edited by pauli; 07-26-2011 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 09:48 PM   #24
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Yes, that is correct. You can try one, but it may not work as well as you would like.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:30 PM   #25
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split system, high humidity


Hi All:

First I want to thank everyone for their contribution to my cause.

Setting the air handler to 350 CFM's did make end of July/ Beginning of August bearable, but only if I set the thermostat at a permanent hold of 73 degrees. The humidity stays in check. I am thinking about changing out the compressor for a smaller one, Still have to run that calulation that was posted, thanks for that.

So for now, I think I want to use that suggestion where the air handler will run longer when connected to a humidistat. I have a Honeywell Vision Pro 8000 thermostat, model TH8320U1008, does any one know, if this unit has a humidistat function?

I'm also looking into leaks in the house. Which brings me to my next question:

Its really humid outside, but cool inside. Some of the windows have dew on the outside, some are clear. They could be in the same room facing the same direction and one has dew, the other not. The storms are down.

My guess is that one is leaking and the others are not. I'm thinking that the clear glass is the one that is leaking. Am I corrected?

I did finally figure out the window manufacture and will be contacting them for weather stripping. Hopefully they still make the stripping, reports on the net are doubtful, but I ran into this guy online that makes the stuff PWD is the company name, hopefully and he seems willing to help me.

Thanks
-pauli
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:40 AM   #26
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The TH8320 doesn't have a humidistat in it, the TH8321 does.
The windows with condensate on them are the ones that are leaking.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
The TH8320 doesn't have a humidistat in it, the TH8321 does.
The windows with condensate on them are the ones that are leaking.
Thanks for the info for my T-Stat, no way to upgrade it?

I'm not so sure with your comment about the windows. I have a triple double hung, does that make sense?

I know its leaking, in the winter when the wind blew, it was like there was no window there. That was with the storms down. Just so know know, the storms were added later ( not new construction). Those windows had no condensation on them. So thats why I think the windows with condensation on them were fine.

However it important to note that they were facing South.

Not sure if any of that will make a difference?

I'm still working on replacing those weather strips. I'll be calling Crestline in the afternoon.

Thanks

pauli
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:41 PM   #28
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split system, high humidity


Something that may help out is a carrier thermidistat. It has a super-dehumidification setting that will keep the fan at low speed for a longer period of time. This will have to be set-up by a qualified tech.
I didn't read all 30 previous posts, but you can also use a Trane touchscreen with humidity control. Not the honeywell version. There are some internal differences, and how it controls the dehumidification cycle
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:14 PM   #29
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Can use a Honeywell IAQ(YTH9421), it will keep the fan slowed down until the humidity level is down, it won't time out.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Can use a Honeywell IAQ(YTH9421), it will keep the fan slowed down until the humidity level is down, it won't time out.

Hi,

The humidity level went back up, it was a good few weeks. I am looking for new weatherstripping for my windows now, but if I was to go with the Honeywell YTH9421, which model? Is the YTH9421C1002 a good choice?

I think it needs constant 24 volts, is this true?

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