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Old 05-22-2009, 11:22 AM   #16
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


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Originally Posted by kenmac View Post
gave a guy a price this week for a complete change out condensor, faf, line set, A coil. He said but, I can get everything that you priced me off the net. for $xxx & you are charging $XXXX. I told him to buy it off the net & install it himself.. His answer,,,I may buy off the net,,, can I pay you to show me how to install
Did you say Yes I can, no warranty

and the price is $XXXXX

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Old 05-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #17
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


Yes I did. I told him he would have the same $ tied up in the job as he would if I supplied the equipment & installed. He said I can't believe you are getting that much $ for just the labor. I told him to purchase his own installiation equipment , tools ,etc, & install it himself.. Then he can pay me ( of course, I won't do it ) to straighten out his mess
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Old 05-22-2009, 12:41 PM   #18
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


There are two types of warranty's we can issue the DIYER.

1. The egg timer warranty.

2. The break in half warranty, if it breaks in half he gets to keep both half's.

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Old 05-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #19
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


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Originally Posted by Aggie67 View Post
The trades guys here are going to hate me even more, but...

That mindset is now prevalent in my area. I have clients that pay me to come out and show them the ropes for $80 an hour. I usually stay a half day and work along side them, and do phone consults and spot visits.
I have a question for the "Trade Guys". If a homeowner assumes responsibility, and requests, or would pay $80 per hour for consult and guidance, why would you not do it? (I am using $80 per hour from above, your rate will vary depending on area). I mean, if your normal rate were $80 and you spent 1/2 day doing consult, besides parts mark-up, what is the difference between this service and chasing bad igniters and run caps?

Also, would this not be the ultimate sales call to solicit your services as the start-up contractor, which would make you first in line for any service when that time comes around? (remember, I said "IF" the HO assumes responsibility)

I understand that it is not in your nature or business plan to forfeit equipment profit, but the fact is, there is a certain population who is going to buy direct. This is a growing trend (small, but growing) Why not take this labor $$?

I am open to all answers (and trust me, I have worked hand in hand with contractors for years and have heard every reason.)

Thanks
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #20
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


Not in the trades, but
I think there is a big difference between somone who knows what they are doing, but may need some assistance
And the person that wants to hire you to "train" them how to do something
Working in IT I could do a job in "x" hours
Training a newbie it was usually "2x" depending upon the abilities

So in this HVAC case I think any $$ saved on equipment would be chewed up in how long it would take to train the guy
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:44 PM   #21
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Not in the trades, but
I could do a job in "x" hours
Training a newbie it was usually "2x" depending upon the abilities

So in this HVAC case I think any $$ saved on equipment would be chewed up in how long it would take to train the guy
Good point. I still think the best solution is for the HO to do those things that they are capable and to pay prevailing wage for final install and start up to contractors who are willing to work for T&M. The HO still saves and has a DIY hand in the process. Just my $.02
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #22
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


If your normal labor rate is $80.00 an hour.

Then you would need $100.00 to $125.00 an hour consulting to make the same money as providing the equipment and installing the job.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:21 PM   #23
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


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If your normal labor rate is $80.00 an hour.

Then you would need $100.00 to $125.00 an hour consulting to make the same money as providing the equipment and installing the job.

Ok, I understand that, but I think the point is being missed here. Let me try again.

Your response assumes that all you do, 8 hours a day 5 days a week is install new equipment. I hope that is your case. If it is, it is rare.

I am not talking about taking time away from your install of product you sold. I am trying to compare the income of consult or installation and start-up of private purchase equipment and time spent in comparison to running service calls. Again, parts mark up excluded.

Thanks Beenthere for your input. I always appreciate your solid insight.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:26 PM   #24
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


I think liability issues may be the reason.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:35 PM   #25
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


I think I understand what your asking.

What you may be missing though.
That while on a paid consult.
Your also not promoting a sale of equipment and installation to the neighbors of the customer your consulting for.

Your first thought, is that another consult job may come from it.
Which if it does. Fine, another low profit job.
While some profit is better then no profit.
Next thing to consider. Is the consulting losing you profit. By encouraging more DIY installs. Requiring you to increase your consulting charge. And then losing consuting jobs.

Will the customer that you were the consultant for. Now decide that he can do his neighbors install without the neighbor needing to pay you for consultation.
Which of course loses consulting jobs for you.

Its a very sharp double edge sword.
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:48 PM   #26
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


Well,I also am a certified plumber.therefore I do plumbing as well as hvac. I had a cust once that asked for a install price of a water heater installation( me supplying everything) he then calls back for me to quote just install price as he bought the wh.I gave him a price installed his purchased wh.when I complete the job. The wh doesn't fire.he didn't want to pay because the wh didn't work.found out he had purchased the wh from a company that buys from everywhere. The wh had been in a warehouse that had flooded & was no good..this is the type stuff you get into when you install something the ho purchases. When the equip. They bought don't work they want you to either make it work of take it out & install another 1 for the original paid price.to each his own.. I learned my lesson from this cust & just will never do it again
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:47 PM   #27
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


All good points. Thanks.

I am a fence walker on this issue, because I am a retailer of equipment, but also have the background to see the contractors POV as well.

Here is an example:

Last week I was contacted by a local business. They had a bad AC unit, as diagnosed by a local contractor who gave a bid of $4,500 to replace the unit and indoor coil to match with a 13 SEER 2.5 ton. This is where I came in. This business is struggling and asked if I could help. I could have sold the equipment and gotten a local contractor to install. Instead, I was suspicious of the diagnosis. I contacted one of my local contractors to give a 2nd opinion, and I have located a compressor as an alternative to replacement.

I know, I am taking a long time to tell the story, but I am coming to an end. My contractor found a burned brittle hot wire to the compressor and a burned run cap. An hour of labor, a new lead and run cap and a good cleaning and this unit was purring like a kitten. I got nothing out of this, other then being a hero (and free hair cuts for a while. The interesting thing that happened that I think many HO never take into consideration was that when my contractor charged them $150 for the above, they immediately went on the defensive and asked how much the labor was and complained that it was high. I was stunned. I told the husband of business owner to come with me. I led him out to my contractors truck and opened the doors, and asked him how much inventory he thought was in the truck. He threw out $1,000. I corrected him and told him more like $7,500 and that did not even take tools and equipment into account.

I usually don't take this stand, but I could see the contractor's face turn red and I felt the need to come to his defense. There is a reason for the pros to charge their rates and profits. I think the black eye comes when a small population of pros try to make the same profit on one sale and install that a good conscientious contractor would make in two of the same. you guys work hard and deserve your income.
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:59 PM   #28
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


So you saved them the $4500 bill & they balked over a $150 bill. That's crazy
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #29
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


Thats a common thing.
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #30
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So...they said this was a DIY chatroom


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So you saved them the $4500 bill & they balked over a $150 bill. That's crazy
Just like there are bad contractors, there are bad customers too.

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