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Old 01-03-2010, 08:24 AM   #16
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Ruud vs Trane


I missed the 80% on the Ruud.

Needs to get a quote for a 95% on the Ruud to make a apple to apple comparison.

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Old 01-03-2010, 08:37 AM   #17
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Ruud vs Trane


Agreed. A contractor not offering a 95% when there's a big tax credit on the line would be a red flag to me.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:01 PM   #18
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Ruud vs Trane


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
They aren't credible ratings.

The ratings imply that a change of color with a different name tag makes the unit less reliable.

Anybody with a little common sense knows that doesn't change somethings reliability.

The reporting agency uses FLAWED methods. And knows it. And doesn't care.

Or it wouldn't publish such FALSE and MISLEADING information.
Since this question of quality comes up again and again, can you recommend a way that an OP can find info on the quality or reliability for brands and models, preferably by surveys or calculations done by a reputable, unbiased agency or organization?
There is certainly a demand for such info.

One way would be to buy samples of makes and models and "autopsy" them to find out how stressed the individual components are, or subject the entire units to stresses designed to accelerate the unit's aging.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_...ated_Life_Test

Last edited by Yoyizit; 01-03-2010 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 01-04-2010, 05:03 AM   #19
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Ruud vs Trane


Since furnaces and A/C units are not bought as a standard assembled product.
There is no good valid rating system for reliability.

Its not like your buying a finished ready to use product like a car or dish washer that.

Those reports. Don't show how many systems were oversized. And had failures due to undersized duct work.
How many were miswired. How many were vented wrong and that caused the rotted out the heat exchanger.
Or how many compressors were ruined because an undersized wire was ran.

It just faults the equipment. With no consideration to how it was installed.

A car has the correct size exhaust system from factory. There is no mechanic at the dealer ship that is cutting corners by putting on smaller mufflers.

A/C and HP compressor break downs can be caused by improper line sets.

A cars A/C has the correct lines from factory, not some dealerships owners kid running them trying to bend them to reach.

While one manufacturer of HVAC equipment may use thinner jackets. That has no bearing on reliability.

With the exception of Trane/American Standard. They all use the same compressors.
Most condenser fan motors are made by the same company.
With the exception of Carrier. They all use the same ECM blower motor on VS blower models.

Read some of the post on this board.
Common control board replacement thread has this in it. " its a White Rodgers #xxxxxxxxx".
You see that in threads about different brands of furnaces. They use many of the same controls. With an added feature, increased time, etc that another manufacturer doesn't. But its still a White Rodgers board. Made with the same quality that was used for boars that go into another brand.

So many of the parts are made by the same company that makes the same part for other brands. That there is no real difference in part quality.

How it is installed. Becomes what makes it a reliable, or unreliable unit(not brand)


I can tell you, that on York/Luxaire/Coleman equipment.
The people on the assembly line DO NOT KNOW what brand A/C or furnace they are making on a production run(except the guy putting on the different colored panels, tops, and the name badge).
All the parts come out of the SAME PARTS BIN(except the different colored panels, tops, and the name badge).

I believe you will find the other brands do the same with their sister unit.

If someone has brand X installed in their home. And it lasted 15 to 20 years. Brand X is good.
If they have had lots of problems.
Then the duct system, or piping system of boilers need to be evaluated before a new unit goes in.
or they will probably have troubles with any brand they have installed.

Instead of evaluating brands.
Evaluate systems installed by a company.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:43 PM   #20
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Ruud vs Trane


Trane and Ruud are both good products; in this case it should not come down to equipment, but the contractors.

A $1000 dollars sounds like quite a price difference. It sounds like one is or has a designer and the other is just bidding by sq/ft, which is not good. Or even worse one is low balling just to get the job and will hammer you in “change orders”.

I would really ask to site visit a few “in construction” job sites of the contractors or at least ask to see some pictures of past work. Ask about the design, like: “why did you do it that way or why is it done that way?” or “So do you use software or just a ductulator to size your ducting?” and most importantly “So how did you calculate my home’s heat loss and/or size my furnace?”

What to look for:
1) No sagging/drooping/floppy duct-if flexible duct
2) No more than a total of 90 degree turns in a single run (two 45 turns = a total 90)-do not bye the LIE that ‘it is flexible duct, so it doesn’t matter’.
3) When a run splits, it splits with a wye NOT A BOX. Wye’s reduce friction and therefore friction loss = more efficient, quieter system.
4) At least one main return-air and one return-air from the master bedroom, IF the master is roughly 12X15 or larger and especially if it has an attached master bath.

Sorry so long, but truly these are just the basics.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:30 PM   #21
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Ruud vs Trane


The Consumer Reports article ranks the various brands based on the reliability point estimates. They go on to say "In our survey of repair history, we found no statistically meaningful differences in percent of models ever repaired for the leading brands of furnaces." In other words, the brands were no different and the rankings were really six-brand tie.

Why does this happen? It could be due to chance (variability due to sample-to-sample variation in furnaces), non-brand related variability ie installation, or (least likely, in my opinion) flawed methodology - Consumer Reports employs fairly standard and proven statistical methodologies to analyse their data.

Bottom line is the installer makes the difference. Sometime, though not always, this is reflected in the price. However, I find Trane dealers are consistently the most expensive in my locale and I don't think they do a commensurately better job.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:45 PM   #22
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Ruud vs Trane


Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_holmes View Post
I have been quoted 2 different systems Ruud & Trane.

Ruud Configuration:

RUUD Achiever UANL036 3 ton 13 Seer A/C unit
3 ton CE48G44 16 seer A/C bump coil at furnace
RUUD Achiever Super Quiet 80 UGPRO7NBRQR 75,000 BTU 2 stage variable speed Furnace 80%EFF


Trane Configuration:
Trane XR13 3 ton 13 Seer A/C unit
Trane XV95 2 stage variable speed furnace MDL#TUH2B060A9V3VA 95%EFF

The Ruud will cost me about a $1000 less. Can someone comment on the quality of these Ruud systems vis-a-vis Trane. I intend to stay in the house for 6-7 years.
are ruud 13 and 16 seer units both r-22?
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:30 PM   #23
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Ruud vs Trane


As an A/c Contractor I can assure you RUUD is every bit as good or better than a trane , RHEEM and RUUD are Identical , they come off the same assembly. line in Arkansas . With Trane you are paying thousands for a slogan " Hard to stop a trane " I see them stopped all the time , dead in their tracks .
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:32 PM   #24
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Ruud vs Trane


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Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Since this question of quality comes up again and again, can you recommend a way that an OP can find info on the quality or reliability for brands and models, preferably by surveys or calculations done by a reputable, unbiased agency or organization?
There is certainly a demand for such info.

One way would be to buy samples of makes and models and "autopsy" them to find out how stressed the individual components are, or subject the entire units to stresses designed to accelerate the unit's aging.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_...ated_Life_Test
Or Just ask someone that has over 36 years in the business . .

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