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Old 10-05-2011, 10:45 AM   #31
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What was the outdoor temp when you made the video?

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Old 10-05-2011, 12:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlb7 View Post
I asked only about the accumulator and also talked about the TEV. He was sure about the orifice sizes in the accumulator but did not seem to fully understand how that would affect the operation (frosting up) of the pipe.
I was trying to recollect the head pressure number, it may have been more closer to 225, not sure.

Would a wide open TEV act the same as a fixed orifice? If so than I don't see how that would help. What I think I am getting out of all this is that it appears to be a restriction from the accumulator, the orifice size being too big allows more migration of refrigerant, the compressor uses whats readily available and then is starving for more?? Once all the refrigerant is available then the frost goes away? Am I close???
What is bothering you are the fact that the accumulator is freezing up, but the AC is working without problem right?

Since you didn't mention to RUUD tech that upflow temperature is dipping 8 to 10 degrees after every startup. You're ok that it isn't an issue right?

AC is working normal......you have all confort inside your house in cold and heat seoson. I don't get what do you want ....
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:44 PM   #33
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JJ, I live in the land o' heat pumps. I have never seen a unit do this under normal operation or condition. As I mentioned in the post earlier the suction pressure is running low. When you compress r-22 vapor, the lower the suction pressure, the higher the discharge temp. His discharge temp is low, (low total system superheat) so I think the compressor is flooded. Which would give him low output temps at the air handler. If the suction line was frosty coming out of the air handler would you tell him it was normal? No..but this is a heat pump..and that outdoor coil is now the evaporator..
Now I might be wrong, and this may be normal for this unit. If so I will take my lumps. I don't expect to be right 100% of the time.
But why antagonize the OP? If you don't like the thread don't read or respond. This is a free country.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:32 PM   #34
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The accumulator attempts to protect the compressor from liquid refrigerant in the suction line. This is accomplished by use of an inverted trap. However at the same time it can trap oil entrained in the refrigerant. This could eventually hold back the entire oil charge which would cause compressor failure. To overcome this problem a small orifice is located on the underside of the inverted trap. A Venturi Effect occurs and any trapped oil is sucked through the orifice and carried away by the suction vapours to be returned to the compressor sump where it belongs.
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Old 10-05-2011, 02:56 PM   #35
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Then what would cause the frost up (low suction pressure) at start up if the refrigerant charge is according to spec. Wrong size orifice in accumulator? If so then could I get an explanation why a smaller orifice would help? Or would a TEV with the accumulator I already have help. That is why I asked if the TEV was wide open would it be the same size as the fixed orifice that I have and not make a difference?

Efficiency, that is what I am hoping to achieve. The system is not broken per say, but it seems as though it can be made better so the frosting(temp drop) can be eliminated. Dropping temperature at the beginning of every cycle loses efficiency for about 5 minutes, just trying to eliminate the waste if there is a solution.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:28 PM   #36
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Maybe check valve is bypassing the orifice ( after coil )


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Old 10-05-2011, 05:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Maybe check valve is bypassing the orifice ( after coil )
Not sure what you mean, system has not been "altered" in any way.
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:52 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJboy
Maybe check valve is bypassing the orifice ( after coil )
He has a fixed orfice in the condenser..no txv-no check valve. The check is in the txv now..no more externals..
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:00 PM   #39
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Quote:
Then what would cause the frost up (low suction pressure) at start up if the refrigerant charge is according to spec. Wrong size orifice in accumulator? If so then could I get an explanation why a smaller orifice would help? Or would a TEV with the accumulator I already have help. That is why I asked if the TEV was wide open would it be the same size as the fixed orifice that I have and not make a difference?
So this is how it always ends for me. Down to 2 final questions that need answers to help explain the problem. Please, don't let me agonize for another winter season.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlb7 View Post
So this is how it always ends for me. Down to 2 final questions that need answers to help explain the problem. Please, don't let me agonize for another winter season.
We are technicians not engineer. This question has to be asked for the RUUD engineer design not field service technician.

If you have all HVAC tools you can start changing parts.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:24 PM   #41
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Rule #1. Engineers can't fix anything. My family is full of engineers, so will speak with authority on this..;-)

The field tech takes the engineers creation, puts it in the field, and makes it work. The engineer takes the design changes, and makes that the new creation.
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:26 PM   #42
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I think you need to move down to the next size orifice accumulator. A 4 ton heat pump should not be using a 4 ton a/c accumulator.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
I think you need to move down to the next size orifice accumulator. A 4 ton heat pump should not be using a 4 ton a/c accumulator.
The orifice accumulator is more for the oil circulation. Interesting about this symptom is why the another side of the accumulator is not freezing up.
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:05 PM   #44
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Keep going..you almost got it..
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:38 AM   #45
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I am researching for smaller sized orifice accumulators but don't see any showing the size of the orifice.

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