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Old 10-04-2011, 01:50 PM   #16
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That accumulator is rated at 5.4 tons on R-22 and 5.1 tons with 410a.

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Old 10-04-2011, 02:12 PM   #17
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The rheem/ruud part number is a vpa-58127srd.
Parker # pa5083-9-7c
I have not verified this, but comes from a reliable source.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
The rheem/ruud part number is a vpa-58127srd.
Parker # pa5083-9-7c
I have not verified this, but comes from a reliable source.
I just got off the phone with Parker. You are right, the model I have is "up to" 5 tons and the number you provided is for a 4 ton. He told me that the orifice inside is the same size though in both models. Now per their literature it explains exactly what you have said. http://www.parker.com/literature/Aft...atalogs/C1.pdf

Yet he told me that they don't have a accumulator with the smaller orifice. He did tell me that if the fixed orifice was changed to a TXV w/check valve model# HCAE-5-VX100A that the larger size orifice would no longer be an issue in the accumulator. Does that make sense and do you think that would help this issue??

Would a TXV change the migration of refrigerant or the way the accumulator is acting like a restriction??? JJboy may be correct in stating that no problem exist because RUUD says that this is "the way" my system operates but is it still a design flaw that can be improved?
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:48 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by carlb7 View Post
I just got off the phone with Parker. You are right, the model I have is "up to" 5 tons and the number you provided is for a 4 ton. He told me that the orifice inside is the same size though in both models. Now per their literature it explains exactly what you have said. http://www.parker.com/literature/Aft...atalogs/C1.pdf

Yet he told me that they don't have a accumulator with the smaller orifice. He did tell me that if the fixed orifice was changed to a TXV w/check valve model# HCAE-5-VX100A that the larger size orifice would no longer be an issue in the accumulator. Does that make sense and do you think that would help this issue??

Would a TXV change the migration of refrigerant or the way the accumulator is acting like a restriction??? JJboy may be correct in stating that no problem exist because RUUD says that this is "the way" my system operates but is it still a design flaw that can be improved?
Also, I remember that beenthere posted this freezing is normal for RUUD units, when I posted this issue would be a restriction or low of refrigerant.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:13 PM   #20
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Also, I remember that beenthere posted this freezing is normal for RUUD units, when I posted this issue would be a restriction or low of refrigerant.
It is one of their "basic" models. Not very efficient perhaps because of the design. Can it be improved based on a flaw due to this design? The newer models were improved, txv's were added, perhaps this negated the orifice size in the accumulator? Why so determined to say "scrap it" or "It's normal" if there a possibility of improving it and making it more efficient by making a small change?? The representative with Parker seemed to think it would improve the system. Wrong accumulator orifice, combined with fixed orifice for metering may had been acceptable when they cranked these systems out, does that mean it can't be improved now???
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by carlb7 View Post
It is one of their "basic" models. Not very efficient perhaps because of the design. Can it be improved based on a flaw due to this design? The newer models were improved, txv's were added, perhaps this negated the orifice size in the accumulator? Why so determined to say "scrap it" or "It's normal" if there a possibility of improving it and making it more efficient by making a small change?? The representative with Parker seemed to think it would improve the system. Wrong accumulator orifice, combined with fixed orifice for metering may had been acceptable when they cranked these systems out, does that mean it can't be improved now???
Now that you accepted that this symptom is not a problem, but the normal RUUD's operation. We can start talking about what can be improved ....... but what you want to improve it?
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:09 PM   #22
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Judging by the frost on the line we know that the sat temp of the refrigerant is 32f. After working on refrigeration equipment for years, im willing to bet that the suction temp is in the mid 20's. If we factor in a nominal superheat of 5 degrees, the compressor is operating somewhere between 37 and 46 psi. I don't think that is normal.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Master of Cold View Post
Judging by the frost on the line we know that the sat temp of the refrigerant is 32f. After working on refrigeration equipment for years, im willing to bet that the suction temp is in the mid 20's. If we factor in a nominal superheat of 5 degrees, the compressor is operating somewhere between 37 and 46 psi. I don't think that is normal.
What will be the head pressure?
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:26 PM   #24
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That would depend on the temperature of the house.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:30 PM   #25
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and if the coils have proper airflow through them.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:37 PM   #26
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You should go out there JJ. This is the fun part of the job. Changing broken parts is boring. This is a challenge.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:55 PM   #27
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I like reverse engineering.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:44 PM   #28
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RUUD Experts Wanted!-p1040263.jpg

This is the refrigerant charge as per RUUD spec.s Then the suction temperature will drop quite low during the frost up at starup. It acts like a restriction. Would the TEV that the Parker rep suggested help with this scenario versus a accumulator with a smaller oriifce or do you think there would be no change no matter what is done.

The condenser coil is clean, the inside temps are usually about 72 degrees. Head pressure is usually around 250 I think.

The purpose for the correction would be to prevent the upflow temperature from dipping 8 to 10 degrees after every startup that is a direct result of the frosty line at start up, basically efficiency.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlb7 View Post
Attachment 39078

This is the refrigerant charge as per RUUD spec.s Then the suction temperature will drop quite low during the frost up at starup. It acts like a restriction. Would the TEV that the Parker rep suggested help with this scenario versus a accumulator with a smaller oriifce or do you think there would be no change no matter what is done.

The condenser coil is clean, the inside temps are usually about 72 degrees. Head pressure is usually around 250 I think.

The purpose for the correction would be to prevent the upflow temperature from dipping 8 to 10 degrees after every startup that is a direct result of the frosty line at start up, basically efficiency.
Did RUUD tech say all These is normal? or you asked he only about the accumulator freezing?

I'm confused now?
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Old 10-05-2011, 06:24 AM   #30
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Did RUUD tech say all These is normal? or you asked he only about the accumulator freezing?
I asked only about the accumulator and also talked about the TEV. He was sure about the orifice sizes in the accumulator but did not seem to fully understand how that would affect the operation (frosting up) of the pipe.
I was trying to recollect the head pressure number, it may have been more closer to 225, not sure.

Would a wide open TEV act the same as a fixed orifice? If so than I don't see how that would help. What I think I am getting out of all this is that it appears to be a restriction from the accumulator, the orifice size being too big allows more migration of refrigerant, the compressor uses whats readily available and then is starving for more?? Once all the refrigerant is available then the frost goes away? Am I close???

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