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-   -   Rheem classic 90+ burnet flames out (http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/rheem-classic-90-burnet-flames-out-39082/)

RedNecker 02-24-2009 04:10 PM

Rheem classic 90+ burnet flames out
 
The LED is "H" calling for heat

The burner will stay lit from 1 to 6 seconds 90% of the time then goes out.

I replaced the flame sensor, same results.
The error reading 13 for loss of flame.

The vacuum/pressure switches work. The inducer motor runs at two speeds & the main blower motor comes on to clear the furnace.

The condensate lines are clear.
The furnace has less than 20 actual heat hours.

Sometimes it will work when the house is in the low 60s & I turn it on. It will modulate the blower speed.
maybe the gas valve?

The gas furnace is a backup heat source for the heat pump. The heat pump is off when the furnace trys to come on.

None of the local dealers had installed a Modulating furnace so I ordered one from the internet & installed it myself. So the locals do not want to mess with it & the warrenty is not accepted.

Any help?

beenthere 02-24-2009 04:27 PM

Never a good idea to install something that no one in your area handles.

Should have just got the 2 stage.

Have you done any other wiring in the house since installing the furnace.

hvaclover 02-24-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNecker (Post 236121)
The LED is "H" calling for heat

The burner will stay lit from 1 to 6 seconds 90% of the time then goes out.

I replaced the flame sensor, same results.
The error reading 13 for loss of flame.

The vacuum/pressure switches work. The inducer motor runs at two speeds & the main blower motor comes on to clear the furnace.

The condensate lines are clear.
The furnace has less than 20 actual heat hours.

Sometimes it will work when the house is in the low 60s & I turn it on. It will modulate the blower speed.
maybe the gas valve?

The gas furnace is a backup heat source for the heat pump. The heat pump is off when the furnace trys to come on.

None of the local dealers had installed a Modulating furnace so I ordered one from the internet & installed it myself. So the locals do not want to mess with it & the warrenty is not accepted.

Any help?


Not saying that was a stupid..mmmmm yes I am. The tech manual for that furnace is 250 pgs. It IS the most sophisticated system on the market.

It is also the the hardest to trouble shoot for a non Pro. What made you think you were up to the task?

Install is easy. Configuration is the problem you face. And since you bought off the internet you have a voided warranty.

RedNecker 02-25-2009 07:25 AM

I did not think it was stupid then & not now. I wanted a quiet efficent even heat furnace. This one he best.

This is a common problem with the Classic 90+,.

Any help from someone that has solved the problem would be helpful.

I thought this was a DIY forum not the pro HVAC forum.

The gas pressure is within specs at supply & burner.

Again, any help for the problem?

hvac122 02-25-2009 07:59 AM

Sounds like a install or setup problem to me. You want a answer to a problem that could have many causes. Don't bash us for not having a single answer for you. This furnace needs to be diagnosed by a tech with experience sitting in front of it.

First thing I would check is the ground to the furnace.

beenthere 02-25-2009 09:02 AM

Rheems 2 stage with VS blower is more efficient then the Mod, and just as quiet.

How did you determine that manifold pressure was correct?

Lot of techs say that, and have no idea what correct is.

Provide us with a reading from the flame sensor, and we might be able to tell you more.

Provide the air pressure reading the pressure switch is sensing, before and after ignition.

You still didn't answer if there has been any wiring work done since the furnace was installed.

And no, it wasn't a smart idea to install it.

Companies that install it. Have problems fixing them. Usually because they don't take the training courses for working on them.

The place you bought it from. Should have support for it.

hvaclover 02-25-2009 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNecker (Post 236404)
I did not think it was stupid then & not now. I wanted a quiet efficent even heat furnace. This one he best.

This is a common problem with the Classic 90+,.

Any help from someone that has solved the problem would be helpful.

I thought this was a DIY forum not the pro HVAC forum.

The gas pressure is within specs at supply & burner.

Again, any help for the problem?


How do you know it's a common problem? You'd have to know HVAC to make that determination. This is a DIY site and if you think you'll find help from a DIYer than post away.

We pros are here to help DIYs with problems they can't solve. We also advise DIYs when they are in over their head. And you are way in, my friend.

hvaclover 02-25-2009 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beenthere (Post 236454)
Rheems 2 stage with VS blower is more efficient then the Mod, and just as quiet.

How did you determine that manifold pressure was correct?

Lot of techs say that, and have no idea what correct is.

Provide us with a reading from the flame sensor, and we might be able to tell you more.

Provide the air pressure reading the pressure switch is sensing, before and after ignition.

You still didn't answer if there has been any wiring work done since the furnace was installed.

And no, it wasn't a smart idea to install it.

Companies that install it. Have problems fixing them. Usually because they don't take the training courses for working on them.

The place you bought it from. Should have support for it.



Hey Been! Should we tell him about the factory stat debacle some time back?

Bet he's using an 1F 85 -50:laughing:

RedNecker 02-25-2009 10:18 AM

"How do you know it's a common problem? You'd have to know HVAC to make that determination. This is a DIY site and if you think you'll find help from a DIYer than post away.

We pros are here to help DIYs with problems they can't solve. We also advise DIYs when they are in over their head. And you are way in, my friend. "

I have seen it posted on many sites going back two years. But no real answers.


"How did you determine that manifold pressure was correct?

I measured it with a manometer, & it was in manual specs.

Lot of techs say that, and have no idea what correct is.

Provide us with a reading from the flame sensor, and we might be able to tell you"

The only reading that I could get was 580mv, but my meter may be off on that scale. What should it be?

The "V" modulating signal. Is it AC, DC, or pulse-width modulation?
The DC meter varies fro 2 to 9 VDC * the AC meter varies from 3 to 20 volts.
I have not DC scoped it yet. What should the reading be?


"You still didn't answer if there has been any wiring work done since the furnace was installed."

No. The ground, netural, & hot are correct.

"Hey Been! Should we tell him about the factory stat debacle some time back?

Bet he's using an 1F 85 -50:laughing: "


What is this? I have the Contour Comfort stat.
Were bad stat versions sent out that causes this?
If so how do I know the bad version? Good Version?

beenthere 02-25-2009 11:36 AM

The flame sensor is read in mA, not mV. So you don't know if your getting a good reading.

Since it was in spec, what was the actual manifold reading in inches water column.
I get the, "it was within spec" answer from techs, that didn't actually read the pressure.

Hot, neutral and ground are correct?
Has nothing to do with other wiring being done in the house. There are other things that can interfere with the electrical end.
I'm guessing there was.

Since you don't want to answer the questions that can lead to helping you.
You can't be helped.

RedNecker 02-25-2009 12:19 PM

"The flame sensor is read in mA, not mV. So you don't know if your getting a good reading. Thermocouple flame sensors can be read as mV.

The reading is the same with the new thermocouple as the old one.

Since it was in spec, what was the actual manifold reading in inches water column.

I said I read the manometer.
it was 9" wc supply, 3.4"wc manifold

I get the, "it was within spec" answer from techs, that didn't actually read the pressure.

Hot, neutral and ground are correct?
"You still didn't answer if there has been any wiring work done since the furnace was installed."

No. The ground, netural, & hot are correct.
I answered NO to yor question.

Has nothing to do with other wiring being done in the house. There are other things that can interfere with the electrical end.
I'm guessing there was.
NO

Since you don't want to answer the questions that can lead to helping you.
You can't be helped. "

I have answered your questions. Any help would be appreciated if you know of anything that can help.

hvaclover 02-25-2009 12:32 PM

It's not a T'couple. It's a sensor. Meaning: it does not generate voltage. Check the sensor wire to ground and you will measure an AC voltage.

hvaclover 02-25-2009 12:39 PM

I have seen it posted on many sites going back two years. But no real answers. end quote.


You hooked up with a small number of people who might have had the same problem you describe. Unless it's in the hundreds or thousands you do not have a basis for calling it "a common problem". There would be a letter from the factory to Rheem dealers if the problem you describe is wide spread.

RedNecker 02-25-2009 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hvaclover (Post 236564)
It's not a T'couple. It's a sensor. Meaning: it does not generate voltage. Check the sensor wire to ground and you will measure an AC voltage.

OK, not a thermocouple. What is it?
It has infinite ohms from terminal to ground hot or cold.
Is ia a Mercury vapor?
Is it part of a 4-20ma loop?

The volt reading is 6VAC cold & 7.5VAC hot.

What about the "V" modulating signal? Is it pulse-width? If it is what range & level is it?

hvaclover 02-25-2009 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNecker (Post 236601)
OK, not a thermocouple. What is it?
It has infinite ohms from terminal to ground hot or cold.
Is ia a Mercury vapor?
Is it part of a 4-20ma loop?

The volt reading is 6VAC cold & 7.5VAC hot.

What about the "V" modulating signal? Is it pulse-width? If it is what range & level is it?


Dude, you seem very knowledge but some of your questions contradict the knowledge you possess. You sure you ain't just pranking us:huh:?

My Trolldar is is alerting and offering a firing solution.:eek: that does not happen unless there are Trolls in the thread.


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