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Old 02-07-2009, 01:38 AM   #1
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Retrofit pilot light


I have a new ignition module and pilot light for my furnace and im abotu ready to change it. Only problem is the pilot light is a little more bulky. The flame of the pilot light that is installed currently isnt even at the right hight or seems to be installed properly.

The new one cant go in the same spot, i will have to move it a little and make sure its at the proper height so the flame is correct. Is there any problems with doing this?

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Old 02-07-2009, 05:42 AM   #2
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Retrofit pilot light


Post brand and mode of furnace and pilot

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Old 02-07-2009, 11:54 AM   #3
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Retrofit pilot light


I have a HEIL Ultimate 3, intermittent pilot light, installed 1991 range.

model: CGK1000N06
MFG: KUGK100DH06

I am about to install an retrofit kit because my board is having problems. Its the S8610U-1003 with pilot/sensing Q3451B1715.

When i look at the 4 burners, they have a front top plate, not sure if it comes off. The current pilot light is installed between the 2 middle burners, but is more towards the left middle one with the hood of the pilot pointing to the left. Heres a photo;

http://brazco.com/S7001933.jpg
http://brazco.com/S7001934.jpg

First thing is i dont even know if this is the original pilot light module. If you look closely, there is 2 screw holes for the pilot light braket that holds it, but if you ask me it is supose to be on the back side of the top bar that holds the burners (same place just away from the front fo the furnace).

Reason i say that is because the pilot is not mounted properly, the hood touches under the bar and the braket to hold it isnt screwed all the way. If i would make 2 little holes on the back side, the pilot assembly flame would be flush with the burners and light it better.

This would also fix my problem with my new pilot assembly for the universal honeywell kit. The new assembly has an extra hood for sensing that curves over the hood and sparker, doesnt leave much room at all.

http://brazco.com/S7001939.jpg

Last edited by simonb; 02-07-2009 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:50 PM   #4
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Retrofit pilot light


It looks like the proper pilot burner. Just not mounted properly. Should have 2 screws from the front and a green ground wire to the module. That is why it doesn't work/improper grounding/flame sensing. I am a licensed gas fitter for 30 yrs AND WOULD NEVER retrofit/convert a ignition system due to the possibility of delayed/improper ignition/explosions/lawsuits. The furnace is UL certified for the original pilot system and you are living DANGEROUSLY when you convert it. I have seen LOTS of those furnaces and most of them at that age have problems with the burners corroding and flames coming out the sides of them. The burners are obsolete. If something goes wrong your insurance may be void. That is why they have UL certification. If a gas fitter does it then he may be liable. The original pilot burner is a Q345A type and is still available along with the module. No need to convert anything.

Last edited by yuri; 02-07-2009 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:59 PM   #5
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Retrofit pilot light


Thanks for the quick reply yuri.

I looked at the Q345A and it doesnt look the same as what i have. Mine has a sensing rod and an igniter rod, ill take it off again and post a picture a little later.

I have a hard time beleiving that at its current localtion its proper. Shouldnt the flame coming out of the pilot module be at teh same height as the burner flames? Currently its under the top plate and the flame is bouncing off the burner to ignite it, maybe i can take a video if i can get in close enough.

Where can i get parts for this that arent retrofit? Ive been looking around and cant seem to find a location

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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
It looks like the proper pilot burner. I am a licensed gas fitter for 30 yrs AND WOULD NEVER retrofit/convert a ignition system due to the possibility of delayed/improper ignition/explosions/lawsuits. The furnace is UL certified for the original pilot system and you are living DANGEROUSLY when you convert it. I have seen LOTS of those furnaces and most of them at that age have problems with the burners corroding and flames coming out the sides of them. The burners are obsolete. If something goes wrong your insurance may be void. That is why they have UL certification. If a gas fitter does it then he may be liable. The original pilot burner is a Q345A type and is still available along with the module. No need to convert anything.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:15 PM   #6
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Retrofit pilot light


Here are the pictures of the old and old with new. Notice the one with both pilots, the one on the left the bracket that screws to the under side of the cross bar, well it doesnt screw on properly because the hood of the old ignitor is in the way. Its always been this way, thats what i find odd.

http://brazco.com/S7001948.JPG
http://brazco.com/S7001949.JPG
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:53 PM   #7
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Retrofit pilot light


Just re-read your post, I think you thought i had a pilot igniter/sensor in 1. The kit I bought (S8610U) does tell me to put the ground wire from the new ignition kit to the module, but my old one never had that since it had its own dedicated wire for sensing that went back to the unit.

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Originally Posted by yuri View Post
It looks like the proper pilot burner. Just not mounted properly. Should have 2 screws from the front and a green ground wire to the module. That is why it doesn't work/improper grounding/flame sensing. I am a licensed gas fitter for 30 yrs AND WOULD NEVER retrofit/convert a ignition system due to the possibility of delayed/improper ignition/explosions/lawsuits.
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Old 02-07-2009, 08:53 PM   #8
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Retrofit pilot light


Post a pic and name of the ignition module you have now. That furnace was made by ICP in Canada as well as in the US. I believe the US units may have had different parts than ours. Up here they used a Q345A left tip or straight tip burner and a Honeywell S86 module. I get my parts from a heating wholesaler and it is private for tradesmen only. This is what our units use:
http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/UI/Pages/Catalog/ComponentCategory.aspx?Catalog=Homes&Category=Pilo t+Burners_12257&ChannelID={2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}

Last edited by yuri; 02-07-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:46 AM   #9
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Retrofit pilot light


Gosh, you are determined to DIY aren't you?..if I were you, I'd take Yuri's advice of yesterday and RippySkippy's advice from Septmeber of last yeara and have someone in for this job.

Look at it this way: you've gained from the electrical, plumbing, painting and other forums - yet this may be the first time the pros suggest you have someone in...

This is the time to keep your batting average up there and heed their advice to the letter.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:53 AM   #10
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Retrofit pilot light


Problem in my area is that everyone wants to install a newe furnace. They are all money grabs. Cheapest install is a little over 3k. I just dont have the money at this time for this.

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Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Gosh, you are determined to DIY aren't you?..if I were you, I'd take Yuri's advice of yesterday and RippySkippy's advice from Septmeber of last yeara and have someone in for this job.

Look at it this way: you've gained from the electrical, plumbing, painting and other forums - yet this may be the first time the pros suggest you have someone in...

This is the time to keep your batting average up there and heed their advice to the letter.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:59 AM   #11
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Retrofit pilot light


yuri, my module is hsc 1003-301.

http://brazco.com/S7001953.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
Post a pic and name of the ignition module you have now. That furnace was made by ICP in Canada as well as in the US. I believe the US units may have had different parts than ours. Up here they used a Q345A left tip or straight tip burner and a Honeywell S86 module. I get my parts from a heating wholesaler and it is private for tradesmen only. This is what our units use:
http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeywell/UI/Pages/Catalog/ComponentCategory.aspx?Catalog=Homes&Category=Pilo t+Burners_12257&ChannelID={2EB2F178-20ED-44E0-97FB-CCFB4218DD64}

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