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Old 12-31-2012, 04:50 PM   #16
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


All on demand defrost boards do it.

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Old 01-01-2013, 12:13 AM   #17
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


etona58;
I will have to clean up some hastily written schematics, but here are some jpegs of the changes I made to the board. Obviously neatness means nothing to me.

Although is seems to work fine (except for the startup defrost) I would advise you to verify the logic and wiring as I have made mistakes before and I will make them again.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:31 AM   #18
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


im thinking about bootlegging a trane defrost control on my carrier
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:39 PM   #19
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Here are some (crude&hasty) drawings to show changes I made in the Demand defrost Board. Changes were made on the board (instead of elsewhere) so that it is a direct plug in, and the original board could be reinstalled easily.

The location of the taps to board components is shown as viewed with the text reading normally.

An earlier post by me was of an older board, and I had made some changes since then. 1) power thru the add on relay comes from R (24vac) instead of the Y terminal. 2) Power to the on-board relay for the reversing valve comes from R also.

Always learning from this, so I welcome comments and/or ideas
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #20
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Good job Dmet
I did the first revision wiring changes to the board.Happened to have a dpdt relay on hand,so I used it.I may change it to a spdt relay if I run across one.
The "Y" terminal from the thermostat went through the low charge switch,then to the contactor.I rerouted it from the low charge switch to the "Y" teminal on the defrost board.The "Y OUT" terminal controls the contactor.
Have not experienced the startup defrost you mentioned earlier as of yet.
So glad I don't have to hear the unit go into defrost when it's 50+ degrees outside.

Last edited by etona58; 01-08-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #21
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Glad it is working out for you. I know what you mean about the annoying defrost at 50 degrees.... wonder how Goodman ever thought that was acceptable.

I realized that I labeled the relay as a Double pole when it was a single pole.

I have not mentioned it before, but the demand defrost board will also provide for a delay of the compressor when switching modes. Use the CC terminal and connect it to the Compressor contactor grounded(C) side. Lift all the other grounds and tie them together. This will keep all the other grounds working normally, but allow the cc terminal provide the ground to the relay thus allowing the defrost board to de-energize the contactor .
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:00 PM   #22
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Quote:
Originally Posted by carlb23 View Post
Hi I am a homeowner and I have a goodman clpt42 which i installed in 2006. While the heatpump and the GMV 95 furnace have been problem free since the installation I always disliked the timed defrost feature since even set at 90 minutes my heatpump defrosts much more often then necessary. This has spurred me to change out the time defrost to a demand defrost board. Because of cost i decided to go with a White Rodgers 47D40-801 demand which i purchased from Amazon for 44 dollars. The wiring was pretty straight forward except that the white rodgers board was designed to energize the reversing valve during heat while the Goodman energizes the coil on cooling. To rectify this i just added a spdt relay to circuit so that when the board energizes the relay the relay removes power from the reversing coil, this causes the reversing valve on the Goodman to operate properly. On the original setup the yellow wire coming from the T-stat went directly to the compressor contactor, this had to be moved to the new board then the yellow out from the board to the contactor so that the board could shutdown the compressor for 5 seconds on defrost initiation. While electrically everything is working correctly, I wanted to make sure that i placed the outdoor coil temperature sensor in the correct location. I placed the sensor on the vertical liquid tube coming from the outdoor metering device just before it goes into the coil at the top. So far I haven't seen any frosting on the coils but that doesn't mean it isn't defrosting too often. I have not had the time so far to really determine how often it is defrosting but i will do that in the near future. After i am all done i will draw a schematic of the wiring Also the brown wire from the Tstat must be used to energize the defrost circuit rather than the orange wire as this board wants to see 24vac on call for heat rather than cool. If anyone has any suggestions as to the placement of the outdoor coil temperature sensor I would love to hear them. Thanks Carl.
So for the 45 bucks they get for this kit, does it work well? In reading several posts on another professional site, guys over there said it was too expensive to do and would require hundreds of dollars in parts.
So who's right here?

Everything he had to do seems pretty straight foward, along with the relay for the RV. Is he saying that the O wire gets replaced with the B at the thermostat? That would also require going into the stat menu and changing the setting internally o/b. I assume it would be permanent and nothing would have to be changed come summer?

As long as I'm stuck with using our heat pump this kit would work great here, as we get very little humidity and truly only need a real defrost very few times during the heating season.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:44 AM   #23
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


We are. Mine has been going 2 years. Carlb23 did a great job modifying and documenting his results. The concepts is simple, but implementing it has its risks.

First is personal safety. You can get electrocuted working inside the unit. There is 120 volts waiting for you(get unlucky and you can get across 240).

Second, you can damage the unit with a misplaced wire.

Third, If you have warranty on the unit, and have the serviceman out for repair, they could deny warranty since you modified the unit.

Aside from the above, the White Rodgers 47D40-801 is a kit that consists of a board and 2 temperature probes..thats all,,, no instructions for what we have done. But on the other hand, the board will match the mounting holes of the original, and most of the input wiring is the same. The connectors are the same. Carlb23 apparently made the logic corrections external to the circuit board, while I made them on the board. That will allow me to swap back to the factory setup in minutes.

there are 2 logic corrections needed...
1) reverse the "o" logic to make the whiterodgers board happy. That means a relay.
2) Reverse the output of the whiterodgers board to the reversing valve. this means a relay, OR as I have done cut and jump traces on the board itself. Whitesrodgers uses a double throw relay. It is simple to change it so it does the opposite of what was intended.

When all of this is done, there is nothing needed to be done outside the board. Thermostat stays the same. Cooling mode will not be affected.

Of course there is always the risk of something going wrong. You have to wary of that. That will be up to you. Are you willing to take the chance that you will be out there in 20 degrees putting the old board back in so that it will defrost? Small chance, but you have to think about it.

Good luck
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Quote:
Originally Posted by dmet View Post
We are. Mine has been going 2 years. Carlb23 did a great job modifying and documenting his results. The concepts is simple, but implementing it has its risks.

First is personal safety. You can get electrocuted working inside the unit. There is 120 volts waiting for you(get unlucky and you can get across 240).

Second, you can damage the unit with a misplaced wire.

Third, If you have warranty on the unit, and have the serviceman out for repair, they could deny warranty since you modified the unit.

Aside from the above, the White Rodgers 47D40-801 is a kit that consists of a board and 2 temperature probes..thats all,,, no instructions for what we have done. But on the other hand, the board will match the mounting holes of the original, and most of the input wiring is the same. The connectors are the same. Carlb23 apparently made the logic corrections external to the circuit board, while I made them on the board. That will allow me to swap back to the factory setup in minutes.

there are 2 logic corrections needed...
1) reverse the "o" logic to make the whiterodgers board happy. That means a relay.
2) Reverse the output of the whiterodgers board to the reversing valve. this means a relay, OR as I have done cut and jump traces on the board itself. Whitesrodgers uses a double throw relay. It is simple to change it so it does the opposite of what was intended.

When all of this is done, there is nothing needed to be done outside the board. Thermostat stays the same. Cooling mode will not be affected.

Of course there is always the risk of something going wrong. You have to wary of that. That will be up to you. Are you willing to take the chance that you will be out there in 20 degrees putting the old board back in so that it will defrost? Small chance, but you have to think about it.

Good luck
I installed the unit 6 years ago and plan to eventually go back to gas but for now, this kit looks like a neat way to avoid all the useless defrost cycles that our unit goes through.
I just ordered the defrost kit and an Evergreen blower motor. The motor can be transfered to the next unit when the time comes.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #25
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


I recently made this mod on a Carrier unit. Replaced the timed defrost with a Rheem 47-102685-85 defrost board from Amazon. I found a way to wire the board without using another relay. I feel this mod is much simpler and could be more reliable due to not adding any other parts to the board. All I had to do was scrape away two terminals on the changeover/defrost relay and jumper them elsewhere.

Remember, this board receives power from the B terminal of your thermostat. This means that the board expects the changeover solenoid to be energized in heating mode. When the B wire sends 24v to the board, the board then knows that the system is in heating mode and will then begin sensing defrost conditions. The B wire energizes the IC on the circuit board. If you hook the orange wire up, then the board will not know that there is a call for heat. You can reverse the relay, but without a B signal, the board will never initiate a defrost.



If your thermostat features an O and a B terminal like mine, then you can use both and bypass adding any relays. This is a simple mod to the board and only takes a few minutes. Scrape away the B terminal from the relay so that you don't send power to the changeover during heating. Then solder a new wire for the O terminal. Anyway, pictures are worth a thousand words.

Note: I added a jumper wire to the front because this Carrier does not have a low pressure switch so I had to bypass it on the board.
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Last edited by Jesuitson; 01-27-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #26
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Hi, Jesuitson

i have 3m50 thermostat, and it has both B and O, my thermostat cable has 8 wires inside, and i have a gibson heat pump, no low port switch on my old defrost board either.

can you explain more, or show another picture about the two scrapes.
i think i see where the B scrape is, but not sure about how you cut the RV.
thanks
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:27 PM   #27
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Quote:
Originally Posted by bronzemaxell View Post
Hi, Jesuitson

i have 3m50 thermostat, and it has both B and O, my thermostat cable has 8 wires inside, and i have a gibson heat pump, no low port switch on my old defrost board either.

can you explain more, or show another picture about the two scrapes.
i think i see where the B scrape is, but not sure about how you cut the RV.
thanks
Why not just get the Gibson on demand defrost board. no fuss no muss.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:42 PM   #28
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Why not just get the Gibson on demand defrost board. no fuss no muss.
mainly cheaper, comfortguru.com sell this demand defrost kit with sensors only $37, and seem like easy hack to add the o wire
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:48 PM   #29
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


ahh, i see it now, better picture when i looked at your picture on iphone than big lcd monitor
it looks like at the right of Rv marking
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:35 AM   #30
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Retrofit Demand Defrost goodman clpt42


Quote:
Originally Posted by bronzemaxell View Post
ahh, i see it now, better picture when i looked at your picture on iphone than big lcd monitor
it looks like at the right of Rv marking
Yes, that is correct. Sorry about the blurry picture. I couldn't get the camera right. I labeled the board at the relay. It says from top to bottom, B, O and RV. This is not what these circuits went to originally. This is what they become once you make the mod. All you have to do is cut the trace at the "B" and "RV" on the relay, jumper them and then add your "O" wire. Hook up the O and B to your thermostat, ensuring that O is energized in Cooling mode and B is energized in Heating mode.

The way this works is that in heating mode, the thermostat sends voltage through B to the IC which kicks in the demand defrost sensing. This tells the board that the system is calling for heat. But then you cut the output so that it doesn't send voltage to the reversing valve (RV). When the system calls for a defrost, it will then switch the relay and send voltage to both the RV and the heat strips through the D terminal. Once defrost completes, the relay switches back, de-energizing the RV and the heat strips.

In AC mode, voltage is supplied through the O terminal. With the modded board, the O terminal will energize the RV. As these are normally closed when the relay is not active. With no voltage going to the B terminal, the board knows that it is in cooling mode and will not attempt a defrost.

One other thing... When installing the board I covered the back with electrical tape to prevent any possibility of shorting. When you solder in new connections you do have an increased risk of a short because you have removed the protective coating from the board...The board is mounted on plastic stand-offs and I don't think shorting is likely but it's always best to play it safe.

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Last edited by Jesuitson; 01-29-2013 at 12:52 AM. Reason: clarification
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