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Old 10-24-2006, 11:08 PM   #1
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Replacing Old Boiler Type Furnace


hello,
i just bought a house about8 months ago. rented it for a year first. last winter, and im in NC, the natural gas bill was $200+/mo during dec, jan, feb, and it was a mild winter! i had a service tech from the gas company look at the boiler, and he said it looked to be about 20 yrs old. time for a new one. it runs fine, but not efficient at all. also it makes a WHOOF!!! sound, when it turns on now. i think maybe the thermol couple is letting gas in the chamber, a few seconds too soon before it ignites. what is a decent efficient boiler, and ballpark price for installaton? the house is all brick, one floor and about 1500 sq ft.

thanks,

bob
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:43 AM   #2
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Replacing Old Boiler Type Furnace


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Originally Posted by bobo View Post
hello,
i just bought a house about8 months ago. rented it for a year first. last winter, and im in NC, the natural gas bill was $200+/mo during dec, jan, feb, and it was a mild winter! i had a service tech from the gas company look at the boiler, and he said it looked to be about 20 yrs old. time for a new one. it runs fine, but not efficient at all. also it makes a WHOOF!!! sound, when it turns on now. i think maybe the thermol couple is letting gas in the chamber, a few seconds too soon before it ignites. what is a decent efficient boiler, and ballpark price for installaton? the house is all brick, one floor and about 1500 sq ft.

thanks,

bob
3,000 dollars get a weil mclain boiler. Mine made the whoose before it justed needed to be cleaned. Your heating bill is high. My boiler is original to my house and it was built in 63. live in illinois cold climate and i have never had a heating bill over 180 and that is really cold out. i say 3,000 because thats how much my plumber told me he would charge to install a new boiler if i ever wanted to update. I have a weil mclain boiler he said those are still a excellent boiler to go with. My house is 1 story around 1750 square feet. All living space i have detached two car garage.
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Old 10-25-2006, 03:41 AM   #3
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Replacing Old Boiler Type Furnace


The reason why your heating bill could also be high is because your circulator water temp is to low along with your limit water temp. Do you know what those are set at. ON mine if i take off the front cover there is a metal box about 6inces long 4 inches wide with two screws under the screws it says circulator and limit. Above both screws is a metal dial in degrees. See if you can find what these are set on. It could be there set to low and there by making your furnance run to much to heat your house. If to low its simple to turn them up.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:26 AM   #4
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Replacing Old Boiler Type Furnace


Hi bobo

Just wanted to let you know of some other options. The woof sound you are hearing is what we call hard igniton. The main cause of this is the main burner is either dirty or the combustion air is set wrong on it, the pilot may need to be pulled and cleaned, or the gas pressure is too high. As far as the gas bill, check out the Dunkirk Q90 & Q95. These are 90 plus condensing boilers, it don't get much better than that. The other plus to these boilers are that they are American Made, not European or Korean. They can only be used on hydronic or otherwise known as hot water systems. I believe the website to get to them is www.dunkirk.com.

Good luck with your quest.
Rusty
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:45 PM   #5
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thank you all for the ideas and tips! i checked the temp gadge while the furnace was running. the cirulator pump comes on at about 140F and the furnace shuts down at about 170F, and is running about a constant 20lbs water pressure. i think that sounds about right,but what do i know! there is no control box on the outside of the furnace (is the box with the adjustment dials u mentioned also called a "stat control"?) there is a small relay looking unit inside the furnace front cover, that has a dial on it, with what looks to have degree increments on it, that is attached to the pipe comming from the boiler tubes that goes to the circulator pump. i didnt move it, i wanted to tell u first, how the temp is set right now. there are 4 gas burners about 18 in long in the furnace, and at the front of each one, there are sliding vents. the vents on each tube is wide open. i take it these vents control the air to gas mixture. i also noticed that the pilot seems to be have a rather large flame. its about an inch high, and about 1/4" wide, and i can hear the gas hissing from it when the burner is off. is that the norm for a furnace pilot? seems like the pilot alone would add to the gas bill! pls let me know what u guys think. ty again for ur helpful info!

bob
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Old 10-25-2006, 05:15 PM   #6
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Hi bobo

Sounds like you have a fairly new boiler or one that has been upgraded. The thermostats your are seeing with the numbers on them will be an operating control and a high limit control. The temperatures you are operating at seem to be ok, but I would probably reccomend that you locate the one that is the operating control and adjust the differential if possible. 170 off and 140 on is a pretty wide differential, You may not be able to adjust the differential on your particular operating control. The difference between the two of them if they are white rodgers or honeywell is the high limit control should have a red button sticking out of it, the operating control will just have a dial with numbers on it. If the differential is adjustable I would say depending on your climate to bring it down from 30 degres to 20. There should be a screw setting just above the dial when you pull the front cover off, use a small flat screwdriver and bring the left pointer closer to the center pointer. Be careful not to touch the screws that have wires under them, they may have the potential to be 120 volt. Give that a try and see if it is more comfortable.

Good luck, Let me know if you need any further assistance.
Rusty
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:39 PM   #7
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hello again,

i adjusted the temp for on the furnace. there is only one dial. now the furnace kicks on at 170F and shuts down at 195F, and the pump runs all during the cycle. good or bad? fast heat! and plenty. furnace only runs for short intervals.

bob
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:03 PM   #8
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Hi bobo

You want your circulating pump to run the whole cycle or you are just waisting gas and will never stay comfortable. Also the boiler running for short intervals is a good thing, the longer it stays off the less your paying at the meter. Sounds like you have a good grasp on things, Let us know if we can help in the future.

Rusty
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Old 10-26-2006, 09:29 PM   #9
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Big Time Out. That Temp Is Way To HiGH. I'm In Illinois I See 20 Below Zero With Wind Chill DURING a cold winter. My Circulator Temp Is 160 With The Limit Temp At 180. Readjust.

Last edited by 747; 10-26-2006 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 10-27-2006, 02:34 PM   #10
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hi again folks,

there is only one dial to set the heat range. it was set at 190f, i turned it down to about 170, but the furnace still runs till about 210 before it shuts down, and then comes back on at about 180f. the circulator pumps runs most the time. i tried to set it lower, but it sill runs hot. maybe a bad control???

bob
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Old 10-27-2006, 02:46 PM   #11
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Hi bobo

Can you explain a little more about what the control says on it, what the name is where its located. 210 is way too hot for a hydronic system. You are at the steam level at that point. And yes you could have a bad thermostat. The pump running is not a bad thing. 180 is not a bad temperature to run your hydronic system at, every body in this industry has their own opinion. Mine is let the boiler work as little as possible.

Let us know and one of us will help you figure it out.
Rusty
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Old 10-27-2006, 03:22 PM   #12
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its an american standard furnace. the control(thermostat) is located inside the front panel of the boiler, and has a tube that connects to the copper pipe which goes from the boiler tubing to the cirulator pump. there is just one dial on the relay/switch

bob
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Old 10-27-2006, 03:30 PM   #13
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Hi bobo

It sounds like you are indeed adjusting the operating control. If you cannot control temperature of boiler you will need to have this control replaced. You can do it yourself, just be careful and make sure there is no power to boiler. This control should be 120 volts and could hurt you badly. If problem persists you don't want to have a runaway boiler. You need to repair ASAP.

Let us know if we can help further.
Rusty
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Old 10-28-2006, 12:06 AM   #14
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Sorry i made a mistake i wasn't at home when i was posting. I just looked my circulator temp is 130 degrees my limit temp is 180. This works well for keeping my house 70 no matter how cold it is out. The box to adjust says white rogers duel control.
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Old 10-29-2006, 06:58 AM   #15
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Replacing Old Boiler Type Furnace


hi,

thanks folks for the replies! i think the control unit is faulty. now it fires up at about 180, and runs til 210! not right at all. im going to call for service tomorrow. when i bought the house, the seller included a maintenance contract, which he paid for, that is good for a yr. i just pay the contracter $60. and they fix or replace whatever is wrong! this includes heating, ac, aplliances, roofing, everything. so for $60, i cant go wrong. cost that much to take a crap these days! thanks again for ur help!

bob
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