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Old 04-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #1
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


I am finishing my basement, doing 2 new bathrooms, going to install an exhaust fan in each and doing the job by myself.
I know and did almost everything about building, but never touched A/C, fans and so.
Yesterday went to Home Depot to see what they got and later on checked on the Internet.
Since I will have to install in each bathroom a fan+ a light and heating I thought of installing them all in one unit. The one they carry in HD is the Broan-Nutone LLC 100 Cfm Heater/fan/light Mode QTXN100HL, for $228. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...90043%2B500524
It has great reviews and specs (for me it's over killing, I don't need the 100 Cam, but that's the only one I found). It is also a lot of money but it is worth, I think, considering that it is going to save me a lot of time, work and eventually, also money.
Questions:
1- Am I right, or I should consider a different set up?
2- If the above said sounds right, are there any alternatives as good as this unit, but cheaper? (Is it really a good one, as it sounds to me?)
3- In one of the web sites (http://www.rewci.com/panvenfan.html) they recommend using an insulated flexible duct, which is, I guess, more expensive than regular metal one. When I called the company, they told me the reason they do is that the insulated one is not going to create condensation. Is that right, should I use it?
4- Anything else I did not think about?
Any input will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.
Saul

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Old 04-23-2008, 03:29 PM   #2
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Welcome Saul,

I did not see the fan you speced out on the link. My .02 cents is to check the Sones. 1 sone is about a normal refrigerator running. 2 sones twice as loud. The insulated duct will help prevent condensation and also keep the noise level down.

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Old 04-23-2008, 07:16 PM   #3
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Thanks 47.
It is the one on the top right corner for $217. (I am sorry, I quoted the price including tax, didn't think it may mislead).
It is 1.2 Sones, which I think is good. Isn't it?
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:31 AM   #4
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


How big are these bathrooms? 100 CFM is rather large. Sone level is a little high, but to get quieter it will cost another 100.00+.
How do you plan to route the exhaust? The duct size of each fan is 6". Not knowing your layout, the only way I see is to run each duct in the joist space and directly out the house wall.
You will need 3) dedicated 20 amp circuits for both bathrooms. One for each of the fans and one which can serve only both bathroom GFCI outlets.

Nothing worse than planning for and buying a unit then finding out later that it can't be correctly installed.
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #5
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Thanks 47.
I am between runs now. As soon as I get back I will check and come back here with the answers.
I appreciate your help.
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Old 04-24-2008, 11:47 PM   #6
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


The bathrooms are not big. Both are about 99"x62" each. I know I do not need the 100 Cfm, that it is overkilling, but that was the only fan I found with the 3 functions.
I attached a floor plan of the part where the showers are. I am sorry but the only way the system let me upload them was after I reduced their sizes and it reduced also the quality of the document, so they are a bit blur.
Route the exhaust: thanks for asking because that was something I was not sure about.
Shower A is not a problem, I just run it to the back. Regarding shower B I thought of 3 options:
Option 1 would be the simplest, the fan is just 3'-4' away from the wall, I just go out. But then I am not sure if I want it right in the front of the house. (?)
Option B: I am not sure if I can use a "Y" like I do with plumbing/sewer etc'. If I can, then I just put a Y and join shower A on it's way out.
Option C would be just to run, as you said in the joist space to the back of the house.
What would be the best?
Regarding the electric I do have the 3 dedicated 20 Amp circuits. I already passed that inspection, so that would not be a problem.
When you are talking about more quiet for an additional $100, what do you have in mind? How many Sones you are talking about? Where can I see the one you are thinking about?
Again, thanks a lot for your help. I think you are saving me.
Saul
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Showers Basement-Red.pdf (14.7 KB, 65 views)
File Type: pdf Showers Basement-1 Red.pdf (12.2 KB, 53 views)
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:32 AM   #7
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Saul,

I am just a DIY'er like yourself and do not have any definite answers and do not what you to make a mistake based on my information. I'm sure others will chime in.
What I can tell you is that I've done a little research and have found that the smallest rating for a fan/light/heater combo unit is around 100 CFM's. I've checked Broan, Nutone and Panasonic. Your baths are approx 320 ft² and a 100 CFM fan will move 6000 ft³/hour of air and you will change the air in the bath almost 19 times per hour. From the information I've gathered air should be changed between 8 times per hour and 100 CFM appears to be too large of a fan for your bath.
I know that you cannot tie unlike two ducts together (i.e. dryer vent and bath fan...) and unsure if you can tie in two fans vents together. I do know that there is a maximum duct length based on the duct material, diameter and # of elbows. Again I'm not sure of the number but 28-ft. seems rather far and may require a booster fan.

I'm sorry if I can't give you better answers, but I won't knowingly give out false information.

Mike
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Old 04-26-2008, 05:28 PM   #8
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by 47_47 View Post
Saul,
I'm sorry if I can't give you better answers...
Mike
Hello Mike.
First I wanted to thank you for what you have done trying to help me, (hey, it is way more that what the other 135 members that read the thread have done and I really appreciate it! ).
Regarding the size of the fan; as said also by you, this is the smallest size for the combo, and even if is overkilling, it will have to do.
Regarding the ducts I will still look for the answers.
(Hopefully, someone who "breathes" this stuff will try to help here).
If not, I will try one of those (or probably both): I will search the DIY site, look for someone who looks knowledgeable in the subject and try emailing specific questions and at the same time I will try searching the net.
Enjoy the rest of the weekend. Saul

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Old 05-01-2008, 02:46 PM   #9
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


There are now some fans on the market that involve a remote fan in the attic ducted down to the bathroom. They are silent, but will cost you some cash.

The insulated duct is not a bad idea, as it will help prevent condensation in the unconditioned attic.

Your best bet is to duct the fan to outdoor air. Some people run them to soffit vents. I prefer a dryer vent-type setup.

Follow the manufacturer's specific instructions regarding elbows and developed length of pipe. Although not critical to the fan's function or your safety (like with a dryer), it will function best if installed within the limits set by the manufacturer. Certain fans are capable of creating a certain amount of static pressure, given a certain duct size and number of changes of direction. If your duct has too much volume and too many bends, the fan can't create enough pressure to "push" the humidity and odors out. It is the same principal as furnaces and household ductwork.

Just remember that the shortest run of vent will yield the best performance.

Don't link two fans' vents together. Static pressure within the vent will always push one fan's air into another fan's vent (bad smells and humidity in unused bathroom). You should definately run dedicated ducts. Never, never, never tap into a dryer vent or any other vent/duct system in the house.

You do not need dedicated circuits for the fans themselves. They can be served off the lighting circuit running to the bath if you desire.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:34 PM   #10
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


thekctermite thanks a lot to you! I am right now tied up, trying to joggle between some projects, (daughters prom, end of the year performances etc'). I will do some research and within some days I will get back with specific questions. I hope this is OK with you.
I appreciate your help. Thanks again and enjoy your weekend. Saul
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:58 PM   #11
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Recommendation: new exhaust fans in basement


Hello.
thekctermite, the one with the remote fan in the attic sounds like a lot of trouble to me, since I will have to run the ducting thru 2 floors.
Thanks for the advice regarding the ducts. I will duct the front one straight to the front (about 3’-4’) and the other one (shower A’) to the back (about 14’ straight duct) with the 4”-5” insulated duct.
I have done some research and eliminating fans with 1.5 sone and higher, I narrowed them down to 3:
1- Panasonic FV-11VHL1, 110 CFM, 1 sone and around $210 http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...702#tabsection
2- NuTone/Broan QTXN110HL, 110 CFM, 0.9 sone and about $220-$230 http://www.electricsuppliesonline.com/nuqthefanlim.html and
3- Air Zone AZ590VHL, 90CFM, 0.8 sone and around $170. http://electricsuppliesonline.com/paazprheairz2.html.
All prices include Tax+S&H.
It looks to me that the best choice will be Air Zone. It is not only cheaper (and I am buying 2 units), but the duct will be 4"-5" instead of 6" and the specs sound good to me. (I will post a separated post/question if anyone have had problems with it...)
What do you think?
Thanks again. Saul

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