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Old 10-11-2008, 02:51 PM   #46
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Oh CRAP !!! I didn't know these heaters would make my family sick. I guess I need to look into a different type. I can't afford to have a central heat and air system installed. Is there another kind of NG heater I can use that won't make us all sick? Would the vented type be any better? This old house has a huge empty attic so running vents would be really easy.

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Old 10-11-2008, 03:21 PM   #47
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vented would not make you sick, no. =o) perhaps just do a VENTED ng furnace and use window units for a/c? (cheapest, i imagine)

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Old 10-11-2008, 03:49 PM   #48
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I was curious about them for the reason of venting and carbon monoxide. I recall that there was allowable number of heaters per square footage of living space and a different number for sleeping areas.

Might be worth looking into through-the-wall PTAC units instead.
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:52 PM   #49
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD View Post
Oh CRAP !!! I didn't know these heaters would make my family sick. I guess I need to look into a different type. I can't afford to have a central heat and air system installed. Is there another kind of NG heater I can use that won't make us all sick? Would the vented type be any better? This old house has a huge empty attic so running vents would be really easy.

Look, let's figure this out together. We caught it before it went to the point of you wasting money.

I would suggest first getting an estimate (Three is what is usually recommended) for a ducted system with a furnace.

Then do some number crunching and see if it fits into the budget.

You can always check here for help and if you need the number of a contractor in your area there are plenty on on line resources available.

PM any one of the Pros on this board and they can probably put you in touch with somebody close by.

If it turns out you want to take a crack at the install yourself you got this site to back you up along with other online sites.

Sorry it worked out like that, but at least you won't be ruining your health
now
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:39 PM   #50
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


IFGC: 621.2 Prohibited Uses.

"One or more unvented room heaters shall not be used as the sole source of comfort heating in a dwelling unit".

There sole intent for unvented heaters is as a supplement only.
Unvented heaters are limited in size by room cubic foot volume. Adjoining rooms can be included in sizing if the rooms can not be intentionally, or accidentally isolated from each other. Unvented heaters are lmited to 20 BTUs per hour input per cubic foot of room volume. Along with a max permitted BTU under any circumstance of 40,000 BTUs per hour input.

They do make vented heaters, that can be vented thru the wall.

But, they usually have expensive parts.

Individual vented room heaters could cost you more then installing a central ducted system.

Please investigate all other options before commiting to individual room heaters.
Although rated at 80% efficiency. They require fresh air to be brought into the house, by either means of high natural infiltration. Or mechanical means. Either way, you have to bring in fresh cold outside air into the warm house, you just paid to heat.
Kinda of defeating the purpose of having closed doors and windows.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:36 PM   #51
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD View Post
Oh CRAP !!! I didn't know these heaters would make my family sick. I guess I need to look into a different type. I can't afford to have a central heat and air system installed. Is there another kind of NG heater I can use that won't make us all sick? Would the vented type be any better? This old house has a huge empty attic so running vents would be really easy.
Wow sorry to hear that your plan won't work as planned!
But can i suggest you possibly getting a used hvac? Thats what i done! I purchased my unit for $125.00 out of a bargain trader paper here locally. The one i purchased was removed from a home being renovated. Nothing wrong with buying used cars, used houses, heck nothing even wrong with using used Fishing rods, so theres nothign wrong with using used hvac units.
I know you dont already have pre'existing ducts, but mapping and sizing your ducts, would be a breeze with the help of this site. And purchase of the new ducts are very inexpensive! Electrical/plumbing would be a breeze as well with others and my help from here! Heck you find the right deal you just might get a good source for the complete project!
When i removed my old unit and sold it it was sold with everything ecept for recep covers. And i do mean everything, all the way to the breakers out of the breaker box!
You dont have your region or city listed or i could start searching immediatly for you a used unit! If you dont want to public your private info then PM. me and I will start the search immediatly!
You can also find a many of used units on the auction sites(you should know who they are if not then pm and i will provide you that info aswell!
I am doen with my project now so i have all the time in the world to assist you with your project and i would liek nothign more then to dedicate my time to assisting you with your project!
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:47 PM   #52
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD View Post
Oh CRAP !!! I didn't know these heaters would make my family sick. I guess I need to look into a different type. I can't afford to have a central heat and air system installed. Is there another kind of NG heater I can use that won't make us all sick? Would the vented type be any better? This old house has a huge empty attic so running vents would be really easy.
Hey just had the wife standing over my shoulder during my last post in reference to this, and she just now suggested our old base board heaters!I know you was looking for a NG heater but this is an option! Considering time allotment, and cost!

Though not very cost efficient to operate, I have three 8' 220/eletric baseboard heaters we would be more then happy to donate to a great cause as yours!
These heaters were purchased last season for the reason of my old hvac not being big enough to heat the down stairs let alone the upstairs aswell. So we closed the damper to the supply that fed the upstairs and used base board heaters up thier!, WEll even before it got cold two of my kids moved out of the house, so 2 of the units were never even used after the innitial testing of the units, and one of the units was in my sons room who still at home but he was either never home or slept downstairs on the couch, so his unit was used very minumally. Just a suggestion!
If nothing else we could get you through this season and maybe get you on track for a system install next yr.(maybe tax time or whatever/whenever) Just a great suggestion form the wifey!

By the way the baseboard heaters were also priced very reasonably, at the box stores, when I was at one the other day, I seen the 8ftrs priced for $33.00 each,and the 12ftrs priced at $48.00 each, if you are only supplying the three rooms then this might be an option as well! the baseboard heaters are inexpensive, it is the thermostats that are expensive for them! So if you want to purchase your own, base board heaters then I will part with my three thermostats from my heaters if that could help you with the cost!!
Let me know!
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Last edited by MrShadetree0222; 10-11-2008 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Typos! darn i suck at spelling....
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #53
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD
Here's the one we're going to get for the living room. It has a thermostatic fan in it which is nice. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100594228. Here's one we are looking at for the bedrooms. http://www.homestandbysystems.com/as...LW1004_2078503. It's manual control instead of a thermostatic fan. These heaters work great and they're very energy effecient.


MrShadetree0222




Some great choices for your applications, so how are you coming along with the project? Were you able to track backwards the lines and remove the old out-of-service lines without having to cut them off? Keep us updated! As I have now completed my project so i now have more time fo rhelping instead of needing help!
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end of quote

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


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Last edited by hvaclover; 10-11-2008 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:20 PM   #54
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
Hey just had the wife standing over my shoulder during my last post in reference to this, and she just now suggested our old base board heaters!I know you was looking for a NG heater but this is an option! Considering time allotment, and cost!

Though not very cost efficient to operate, I have three 8' 220/eletric baseboard heaters we would be more then happy to donate to a great cause as yours!
These heaters were purchased last season for the reason of my old hvac not being big enough to heat the down stairs let alone the upstairs aswell. So we closed the damper to the supply that fed the upstairs and used base board heaters up thier!, WEll even before it got cold two of my kids moved out of the house, so 2 of the units were never even used after the innitial testing of the units, and one of the units was in my sons room who still at home but he was either never home or slept downstairs on the couch, so his unit was used very minumally. Just a suggestion!
If nothing else we could get you through this season and maybe get you on track for a system install next yr.(maybe tax time or whatever/whenever) Just a great suggestion form the wifey!

By the way the baseboard heaters were also priced very reasonably, at the box stores, when I was at one the other day, I seen the 8ftrs priced for $33.00 each,and the 12ftrs priced at $48.00 each, if you are only supplying the three rooms then this might be an option as well! the baseboard heaters are inexpensive, it is the thermostats that are expensive for them! So if you want to purchase your own, base board heaters then I will part with my three thermostats from my heaters if that could help you with the cost!!
Let me know!
Used equipment is a gamble at best and could be unsafe. You never know what is really wrong with it.

Baseboard heat is going to require a 220 circuit for each room. Now you have the cost of an electrician and possibly faulty and hazardous used base board. And theres the fuse or breaker box in your home, is able to sustain the electric heat.
This spells fire to me. INHO
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:22 PM   #55
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD
Here's the one we're going to get for the living room. It has a thermostatic fan in it which is nice. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100594228. Here's one we are looking at for the bedrooms. http://www.homestandbysystems.com/as...LW1004_2078503. It's manual control instead of a thermostatic fan. These heaters work great and they're very energy effecient.


MrShadetree0222




Some great choices for your applications, so how are you coming along with the project? Were you able to track backwards the lines and remove the old out-of-service lines without having to cut them off? Keep us updated! As I have now completed my project so i now have more time fo rhelping instead of needing help!
__________________
My house, a 1921 Sears-Robuk 1 1/2 story 4 bedroom, 2 bath 1975 sqr ft house! Ordered March 1921, delivered via: railcar 1922, assembled October 1922! Ignorance is not having the knowledge of', Stupidity is having the knowledge of' and not using it!
end of quote

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


So whats your point hvac-lover? Myself not being personally knowledged about the 'safety factors' involved with these units, I was mearly looking at the installation ease, cost efficiency of the purchase, looks and beauty, And burning efficiency off the units!
So what you trying to make me look like an for my ignorance of the safety of these units? After he(dvlchld) posted the links to the individual unit I went and investigated the units listed, and after reading the specs of the units, and the installation of the units, and looks of the units for presentability, yeah "it was a great choice" for his applications!!!!!!!

By the way their are no safety issues( in reference to the different toxins, and health hazards associated with these units) posted in the website links he provided. So without personal knowledge, and or use of the units listed or education about this style of unit how else would a do-it-yourself'er know about these issues!
Incase you keep forgetting we are Do-it-ourselfers here at this website, So we are not educated, nor knowledged (unlike you hvac-lover)of things of that nature unless the information is offered or presented to us the consumer then we have no way of knowing!
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:25 PM   #56
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
So whats your point hvac-lover? Myself not being personally knowledged about the 'safety factors' involved with these units, I was mearly looking at the installation ease, cost efficiency of the purchase, looks and beauty, And burning efficiency off the units!
So what you trying to make me look like an for my ignorance of the safety of these units? After he(dvlchld) posted the links to the individual unit I went and investigated the units listed, and after reading the specs of the units, and the installation of the units, and looks of the units for presentability, yeah "it was a great choice" for his applications!!!!!!!

By the way their are no safety issues( in reference to the different toxins, and health hazards associated with these units) posted in the website links he provided. So without personal knowledge, and or use of the units listed or education about this style of unit how else would a do-it-yourself'er know about these issues!
Incase you keep forgetting we are Do-it-ourselfers here at this website, So we are not educated, nor knowledged (unlike you hvac-lover)of things of that nature unless the information is offered or presented to us the consumer then we have no way of knowing!

That was very thoughtful of you to offer the thermostats.
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Last edited by hvaclover; 10-11-2008 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:39 PM   #57
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
Used equipment is a gamble at best and could be unsafe. You never know what is really wrong with it.

Baseboard heat is going to require a 220 circuit for each room. Now you have the cost of an electrician and possibly faulty and hazardous used base board. And theres the fuse or breaker box in your home, is able to sustain the electric heat.
This spells fire to me. INHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvaclover View Post
That was very thoughtful of you to offer the thermostats.
Well now I am not a liscensed electricain but I can tell you it doesn't require seperate curcuits for each room. And since you only deal in central units(per your previous posts) You would not be knowledged that these units are now wired (from the factory) to be run in a parralel curcuit and you can run up to three of these 8'ft base board heaters in curcuit with the use of a 30amp breaker, and 10 gauge wire!

Seperate issue: Well since hvaclover seems to think that my 2 brand new items, and one slightly used items offered for free are "gamble and unsafe", "possibly faulty and hazardous" , oh yeah a "fire hazard" too, then you make your decision and let me know! Offer still stands!
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:48 PM   #58
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


DVLCHLD, what is your current electric rate per KW including all taxes and fees.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
Well now I am not a liscensed electricain but I can tell you it doesn't require seperate curcuits for each room. And since you only deal in central units(per your previous posts) You would not be knowledged that these units are now wired (from the factory) to be run in a parralel curcuit and you can run up to three of these 8'ft base board heaters in curcuit with the use of a 30amp breaker, and 10 gauge wire!
That would mean they would have to be less then 2000 watts(6,826 BTUs) each.
Which the ones you have may be under 2000 watts.

A 30 amp breaker should not have more then a 24 amp continuous load drawn on it(continuous load is considered 3 consecutive hours of use).

The NEC has several sections on it.

I use to work for an Electrical/HVAC company.

Lots and lots of reading to stay up with codes.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:17 PM   #60
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShadetree0222 View Post
Well now I am not a liscensed electricain but I can tell you it doesn't require seperate curcuits for each room. And since you only deal in central units(per your previous posts) You would not be knowledged that these units are now wired (from the factory) to be run in a parralel curcuit and you can run up to three of these 8'ft base board heaters in curcuit with the use of a 30amp breaker, and 10 gauge wire!

Seperate issue: Well since hvaclover seems to think that my 2 brand new items, and one slightly used items offered for free are "gamble and unsafe", "possibly faulty and hazardous" , oh yeah a "fire hazard" too, then you make your decision and let me know! Offer still stands!
We do electric heat. And the rooms require a separate fused circuit for each base board. local code.
You said you have no codes where you live so you are following the manufacturer's instruction which are minimum NEC code requirements.
Local municipalities can make the local code more restrictive which is what we have locally and has proven to be much safer. As Beenthere has pointed out.
That was a very magnanimous gesture offering those new items you mentioned.

But I hold to my belief that used is an accident waiting to happen. That is my firm opinion.

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Last edited by hvaclover; 10-11-2008 at 11:19 PM.
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