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Old 10-09-2008, 11:36 PM   #31
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


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Post 27 you say to hold a flame on the open pipe til it goes out.

Even with a gas meter closed off this is a dangerous practice as the meter valve seat may leak by even slightly. Inside a pipe it be comes a bomb.

So I am not bashing you I am calling into question your practices dealing with NG.
Wow you have way to much time on your hands, that was meant in the form that what ever unit was at the furthest point of the line could be burned off, so if it was a stove then run a burner till all remains of ng was burned off, or if it was a space heater at the furthest point of the his system then he could burn the space heater to burn the remains of the gas in the line, now no where was it implamented nor instructed for him to hold an open flame to a gas line to burn the remains off! And that is the purpose of burneing a unit already in place becuase if the unit doesnt quit burning after a a period of time then it is safe to assume that their is a problem with the valve seat and then you could call out a technician, or call the gas co to shut off at the main!

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Old 10-09-2008, 11:42 PM   #32
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


I called him on the flame test thing and he addressed it. We all agree it isn't advisable and therefore wasn't worth mentioning, so let's let it die and get back to helping the OP with his question.

I agree that it would be best to go ahead and shut off the gas to the house and purge the system (and air the place out) before doing any cutting of gaslines. Remember that gaslines inside your house have about 1/2 psi of pressure in them, which is nothing more than a whisper of pressure. It would be very hard if not impossible to detect by feel or sound. But it is plenty to feed one hell of a fire or explosion.

Once you've determined that there's no gas in the line, there's no danger in cutting a pipe that used to have gas in it. No flammable residue.

Just for my own benefit, can you provide the manufacturer name and/or model of the gas heaters you're installing? We don't see those around here, and I'm curious to see how they're vented and their listed applications (bedrooms?).
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:48 PM   #33
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Very well put. And I'll let it die but my professionalism (as well as yours I am sure) is red lining.
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:39 PM   #34
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Here's the one we're going to get for the living room. It has a thermostatic fan in it which is nice. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100594228. Here's one we are looking at for the bedrooms. http://www.homestandbysystems.com/as...LW1004_2078503. It's manual control instead of a thermostatic fan. These heaters work great and they're very energy effecient.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:11 PM   #35
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Thanks for posting that DVLCHLD. Let us know how it works out!
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:58 PM   #36
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


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Here's the one we're going to get for the living room. It has a thermostatic fan in it which is nice. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100594228. Here's one we are looking at for the bedrooms. http://www.homestandbysystems.com/as...LW1004_2078503. It's manual control instead of a thermostatic fan. These heaters work great and they're very energy effecient.
Some great choices for your applications, so how are you coming along with the project? Were you able to track backwards the lines and remove the old out-of-service lines without having to cut them off? Keep us updated! As I have now completed my project so i now have more time fo rhelping instead of needing help!
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:48 AM   #37
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


I removed some of the skirting around the outside of the house and had a look under there. That pipe is just hanging there not connected to anything so I'm just going to cut it off. I also noticed that all the old water plumbing is still under the house. They replaced all the plumbing with PEX pipe which works great but they didn't remove the old plumbing. I'm pretty picky and I want it all removed. That's going to be a job.
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Old 10-11-2008, 09:51 AM   #38
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I removed some of the skirting around the outside of the house and had a look under there. That pipe is just hanging there not connected to anything so I'm just going to cut it off. I also noticed that all the old water plumbing is still under the house. They replaced all the plumbing with PEX pipe which works great but they didn't remove the old plumbing. I'm pretty picky and I want it all removed. That's going to be a job.

Owtch.

You got good head room or are you going to have to lay on your back to do the work?
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:08 AM   #39
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picky=frugal if they're copper!! good recycle $$$ there right now.

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Old 10-11-2008, 11:41 AM   #40
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Plumbing for natural gas ???


Quote:
Originally Posted by DVLCHLD View Post
Here's the one we're going to get for the living room. It has a thermostatic fan in it which is nice. http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100594228. Here's one we are looking at for the bedrooms. http://www.homestandbysystems.com/as...LW1004_2078503. It's manual control instead of a thermostatic fan. These heaters work great and they're very energy effecient.

JFYI

Non vented heaters tend to add a large amount of moisture to the air.

If you intend to decrease your air infiltration down the road. You could run into condensation problems in the winter.
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Old 10-11-2008, 11:47 AM   #41
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Beenthere, I am curious about the products of combustion.

These are clean buring appliance, granted, but putting in so many in a single residence does not present a hazard from the products of combustion?
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:27 PM   #42
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Personally, I don't like them at all.

Carbon Monoxide.
Carbon Dioxide.
Nitrogen Dioxide.
Nitrogen Oxide.

The first one is toxic.
The second one is just an oxygen displacer(as in non toxic).
The last 2 combine to form NOx.

Not a one of them is good to breath for any extended period of time.

People with asethma don't do well in rooms/houses with these type heaters.

And I've been to more then one place where the kids were constantly sick after moving from a place with a central heater, to a house/apartment with unvented heaters.

Most, if not all of them use to recomend opening a window to use them.

Used as the sore sourse of heat in a home or apartment is asking for trouble. Death, brain damage.

Unfortunately, its nearly impossible to convince someone that has used then for a couple years, that they are dangerous, and unsafe for whole house heating.

Its like drinking. Its effects can be slow to kill, or irreversibly harm you. So people don't notice the effects. And find it hard to believe the truth.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:44 PM   #43
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Yeah, that's what I thought, but all my experience is with central system .

The fact these wall units are not vented to the OD ambient had always worried me.

Singularly these units are ok for one room IMO, but used in multiple they could very well raise some health issues that could be deadly.

Unless that house DVCHLD lives in is very loose insulation wise I think we have a recipe for disaster in the offing.

I have serviced several homes with Florida rooms that use an unvented wall heater like the OP has and there was a distinct tinge in the air from the fumes lingering in the air from the gas heater.

My customer said that he had to turn it off after a while because it gave him breathing problems.
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:59 PM   #44
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Yea. The oxygen depletion sensor doesn't prevent operation at above safe level.
It only really trips just before a deadly level. And then the sensor isn't at sitting on standing height. So you can get a bad dose of CO poisoning if your sitting in a chair.

Hot/Warm CO is lighter then oxygen.

They really cut down on how much oxygen you have to breath. And of course. That oxygen is replaced with the chemicals I posted earlier.
So unless there is a fan moving air from other rooms to the room with the heater. Headaches and other ills are common with them. Unless they're opening a window in the room that has the heater.

They use to be real popular around here. Most people stop using them after a year or 2.
After they got tired of paying for the deductable on their health insurance plan.
Doctors don't always think to ask, if someone got a unvented heater installed recently. And then just write scrips for Migraines.
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Old 10-11-2008, 01:09 PM   #45
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DVLCHLD, I hope you read this before you go to the expense of buying them.

A cntral ducted system would be a lot safer.

Good luck.

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