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Old 06-27-2013, 10:09 PM   #31
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicornz0

It wasn't thrown out.

Hopefully this is also a bargain like my Carrier unit,
if not,
oh well,
I've taken a prudent chance.

I do notice, this unit requires an expansion valve in the evaporator coil.

I have an evaporator coil, & I believe I was told it has an orifice(?).
Should this orifice be replaced with an expansion valve?

Thanks Again,
Uni
It should either be installed with the proper sized orifice for the condenser. Or yes a TXV could be added

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Old 06-28-2013, 12:15 AM   #32
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


I've acquired an older Lennox A/C condensing unit HS23-411-1P, & I'm planning on replacing my current Carrier A/C condensing unit 38CKC036350, with this Lennox condenser.

I was hoping to just have the units & Freon swapped.

I do notice, this Lennox unit requires an expansion valve.

I have a horizontal evaporator coil in the air handler, & I believe I was told it has an orifice(?).

Is the expansion valve required for this condenser, part of the condensing unit or the evaporator coil, or line set?

With some of the HS23-411-1P units, for example, the 36,200 BTU model,
The information sheet indicates, the expansion valve has been factory installed.
I've attached the information page.

How can I tell if I need to have an expansion valve added, (& solenoid?)?

Thanks In Advance,
Uni
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EXPANSION VALVE Required.HS23.pdf (27.6 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Unicornz0; 06-28-2013 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:18 AM   #33
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Expansion valve kit is an option, not a requirement. See notes at bottom of that page.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:34 AM   #34
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Merged your new thread with this one.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:40 AM   #35
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Expansion valve kit is an option, not a requirement. See notes at bottom of that page.
Thanks,

Why would an Installer choose to use an expansion valve kit with this condensing unit?

I think I remember being told my Lennox Evaporator Coil model# C3-41-1FF, has an orifice part# RK11320, instead of capillary tubes or a distributor, & will work properly with the newer condensing units.

Does this make sense?

Thanks Again,
Uni

Last edited by Unicornz0; 06-28-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:30 PM   #36
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


It will cool. It won't work properly.

TXV will help efficiency by .5 to 1 SEER point.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:33 AM   #37
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicornz0 View Post
Thanks,

Why would an Installer choose to use an expansion valve kit with this condensing unit?

I think I remember being told my Lennox Evaporator Coil model# C3-41-1FF, has an orifice part# RK11320, instead of capillary tubes or a distributor, & will work properly with the newer condensing units.

Does this make sense?

Thanks Again,
Uni
Hey do us a favor in return would u please Uni?

We'd like to see the final Sub cooling and Super heat readings along with the unit amp-draw and the micron level your installer evacuated the system to.

Thanks Bud.
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:45 PM   #38
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


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Hey do us a favor in return would u please Uni?

We'd like to see the final Sub cooling and Super heat readings along with the unit amp-draw and the micron level your installer evacuated the system to.

Thanks Bud.
I don't have the Sub cooling and Super heat readings, or the unit amp-draw.

I do remember seeing the gauge showing the vacuum holding at 30 inches.

The condenser was installed by a state licensed Mechanical Contractor, &
inspected by the local municipality.

I hope this helps.

If you can tell me how to get the other readings, maybe I can get them.

I'm not trying to disparage,
only to get my AC working, best as I can, within my means.
I sincerely appreciate all the help I've been given.

Thanks Again,
Uni

P.S.

Lennox sent the wrong info for my air handler/coil application.
Mine has an orifice, not TXV.
Attached is the correct specification sheet.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HS23 CONDENSING UNIT Orifice page.pdf (33.5 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by Unicornz0; 06-29-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:37 AM   #39
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicornz0 View Post
I don't have the Sub cooling and Super heat readings, or the unit amp-draw.

I do remember seeing the gauge showing the vacuum holding at 30 inches.

The condenser was installed by a state licensed Mechanical Contractor, &
inspected by the local municipality.

I hope this helps.

If you can tell me how to get the other readings, maybe I can get them.

I'm not trying to disparage,
only to get my AC working, best as I can, within my means.
I sincerely appreciate all the help I've been given.

Thanks Again,
Uni

P.S.

Lennox sent the wrong info for my air handler/coil application.
Mine has an orifice, not TXV.
Attached is the correct specification sheet.
That u got a city inspection is great. It'll cover you in case of some unforeseen accident with your home owners insurnance.

The readings I am referring to will let you know if your unit is running up to snuff. Especially important if you install used equipment. Used equip will not be as robust as new equipment and the closer you stay in spec the better.

If not adjusted properly the superheat could be so high the compressor will fail.

Subcooling if not adjusted properly will result in poor refrigerant flow affecting capacity and dehumidification .

30 in hg as you said the pressure held at, is inadequate as for as vacuum level is considered.

There is still a copious of moisture left in a system, specifically re-used equipment, at 30in hg.

I would change the compressor oil if I were to ever install a re-used unit.
You can bet there is always going to be particulate matter and other impurities that will add to the system contamination.

Get theses readings and we can tell you if they are inline with what your unit should be generating.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:02 PM   #40
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvac5646 View Post
That u got a city inspection is great. It'll cover you in case of some unforeseen accident with your home owners insurnance.

The readings I am referring to will let you know if your unit is running up to snuff. Especially important if you install used equipment. Used equip will not be as robust as new equipment and the closer you stay in spec the better.

If not adjusted properly the superheat could be so high the compressor will fail.

Subcooling if not adjusted properly will result in poor refrigerant flow affecting capacity and dehumidification .

30 in hg as you said the pressure held at, is inadequate as for as vacuum level is considered.

There is still a copious of moisture left in a system, specifically re-used equipment, at 30in hg.

I would change the compressor oil if I were to ever install a re-used unit.
You can bet there is always going to be particulate matter and other impurities that will add to the system contamination.

Get theses readings and we can tell you if they are inline with what your unit should be generating.


So, I've been mislead???

I was told 29 inches is "tight", when the system has been vacuumed & holds at 29 ". I was led to believe I'm in good shape at 30", in regard to moisture in the system.

I was also told these measurements are "old school".
Since the newer gauges are in microns.

Here's what I was told:

"How to do a vacuum test
First of all I would ask him to install a new liquid line filter drier in the system to remove any moisture/debris. Then he can pull a 30" vacuum and if it holds for 10 minutes there are no leaks OR he can fill it with nitrogen to 150 psi and if it holds 10 mins then U are OK.

After that I would want him to pull a vacuum for 1/2 an hour as it is a used system and that will help remove any moisture. As it is not r410 he does not need to use a micron gauge and go to 500 microns. If he does then great but 30" vacuum with r22 is acceptable."

Last edited by Unicornz0; 06-30-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #41
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


29.14" of mercury vacuum is 20,000 microns. A very poor vacuum for air conditioning and refrigeration work.

Our vacuum pumps are not actually capable of reaching 30" of mercury vacuum. And the compound gauge you used, is not accurate enough to read actual mercury vacuum in tenths of an inch.

Micron readings, and torrs have been around for a long long time. As in more then 40 years. So how old school do you want to get.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #42
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After 34 yrs in this biz I have not had a failure from not pulling a micron vacuum on a R22 system. PERIOD. we did not even have those gauges until 10 yrs ago and all our systems worked fine B4 so it is a mute point so you can relax. Guys here like to talk theory but in the real world it got done 4ever like that. A new system is best done with a micron gauge as it is more sensitive and for warranty reasons plus they run 4-10,00 dollars so we want to do a better job. Your old stuff will work fine but with the mismatched coil, worn compressor and different SEER may only cool 80-85% of a new one. That 20 yr old Lennox is a boat anchor IMO and probably the compressor is worn. It is what it is.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
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After 34 yrs in this biz I have not had a failure from not pulling a micron vacuum on a R22 system. PERIOD. we did not even have those gauges until 10 yrs ago and all our systems worked fine B4 so it is a mute point so you can relax. Guys here like to talk theory but in the real world it got done 4ever like that. A new system is best done with a micron gauge as it is more sensitive and for warranty reasons plus they run 4-10,00 dollars so we want to do a better job. Your old stuff will work fine but with the mismatched coil, worn compressor and different SEER may only cool 80-85% of a new one. That 20 yr old Lennox is a boat anchor IMO and probably the compressor is worn. It is what it is.
I can't say that I never had a compressor go out under warranty. nor that all my installs lasted 20 plus years without losing a compressor. So I can't say that not using a micron gauge was ok for all those old systems.
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Old 06-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
After 34 yrs in this biz I have not had a failure from not pulling a micron vacuum on a R22 system. PERIOD. we did not even have those gauges until 10 yrs ago and all our systems worked fine B4 so it is a mute point so you can relax. Guys here like to talk theory but in the real world it got done 4ever like that. A new system is best done with a micron gauge as it is more sensitive and for warranty reasons plus they run 4-10,00 dollars so we want to do a better job. Your old stuff will work fine but with the mismatched coil, worn compressor and different SEER may only cool 80-85% of a new one. That 20 yr old Lennox is a boat anchor IMO and probably the compressor is worn. It is what it is.
Hi Yuri,

Thanks Again,
Uni
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:02 AM   #45
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Please help me correctly size my A/C condenser


Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri View Post
After 34 yrs in this biz I have not had a failure from not pulling a micron vacuum on a R22 system. PERIOD. we did not even have those gauges until 10 yrs ago and all our systems worked fine B4 so it is a mute point so you can relax. Guys here like to talk theory but in the real world it got done 4ever like that. A new system is best done with a micron gauge as it is more sensitive and for warranty reasons plus they run 4-10,00 dollars so we want to do a better job. Your old stuff will work fine but with the mismatched coil, worn compressor and different SEER may only cool 80-85% of a new one. That 20 yr old Lennox is a boat anchor IMO and probably the compressor is worn. It is what it is.
Yuri, Uncle and I both disagree with you. This mismatched system is NOT going to last. And you sure can't say it will with out SH ans SC readings. Just because your systems lasted a long time is not a reliable benchmark to measure the OPs system against.

Insurance companies are now covering coil replacement when a CU fails cause
of the high probability that a mismatch would lead to a future claim on another CU failure.

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