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Old 01-02-2016, 09:25 AM   #1
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Payne 90 gas furnace issues


Noticed the other day poor heat from furnace. Being it is 20 degrees heat is nice

It is trying to put some heat out but not able to even hit 60 degrees.

Older Payne 90 gas furnace - no LED on control board for diagnostics. Took the door off and hit the switch manually. I noticed the blower fan (not the inducer fan) would turn on immediately. Normally it should be inducer fan, gas, igniter then blower fan after gas is lit and running.

Is this indicative of a failed thermostat? Probably will need to call a professional in but would like to know up front what I might be looking at and to make sure whomever comes out is straight with me.


Thanks for anyhelp!

Gary

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Old 01-02-2016, 09:54 AM   #2
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Need to check if you are getting 24 volts from W to C on the circuit board with the heat cranked up.

If the fan is running with no burners it could be the limit control is broken from the furnace overheating or a faulty circuit board.

If you have a electrical meter and know how to use it we can walk you thru it. If not call a Pro.

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Old 01-02-2016, 10:29 AM   #3
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Have a meter and know how to use it it well.. I also meant to say indicative of a bad control board not thermostat. Can the thermostat possibly not be sending the signal for heat?

Anyways thank you for the assistance


Gary
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:44 AM   #4
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It could be a variety of issues.

However historically when you have no heat and the fan is running on a Payne which is Carrier owned, the limit control is blown open. Circuit board thinks the furnace is overheated and is programmed to run the fan to cool it off.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:44 AM   #5
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Also is there supposed to be a diagnostic Led on this control board? I certainly do not see one. The metal cover that goes over the circuit board shows to use a penny across the self test terminals to test each function.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #6
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Some of those have a LED but they forgot to put a viewing window in the cover and furnace door.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #7
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I am assuming the limit control is part of the circuit board?
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:48 AM   #8
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It sits above the burners like in this pic.
Brown thingy with a red wire attached to it. Should have a stamp like L170F. which means open at 170F.
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Payne 90 gas furnace issues-carrier-limit.jpg  
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:55 AM   #9
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Okay - so what do I need to test measure?
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:01 AM   #10
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Remove the 2 wires on the limit control and check it with an ohmeter. If closed it will read 0 or very little resistance, if open then it reads infinity or OL open line. Or you can crank up the tstat and check if there is 24 volts AC across the terminals. If so it is open. Closed would read 0 volts. However the final test should be with an ohmeter in case you got a bad board or wiring.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:05 AM   #11
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I am about to take off from work to go test. To save time and to report back with my findings. What is considered good bad? So for example if there is not 24 volts at the connector this means what typically (with the heat turned up)
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:10 AM   #12
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If you have 24 volts from W to C on the board with the heat cranked up the tstat is OK. If not it is faulty or you got a broken wire etc.

Then the board sends 24 volts to the limit control and back to the board to start the inducer fan. Some boards have a diagnostic feature which will turn the fan on if the limit is open. Very common with Carrier. If you got no 24 volts to one side of the limit then the board may be bad. If the fan won't stop then the fan relay may be stuck closed but w/o heat that is unlikely.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:19 AM   #13
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Okay just so I understand the procedure:


1. Test voltage between W to C on control board with heat cranked up - does the switch on furnace housing need to be closed? So no 24 volts then need to measure the continuity between w & c back to thermostat correct?

2. If I have 24 volts at limit (one side) but not the other side then most likely the limit is open and bad?

3. I have 24 volts on both sides then good chancethe control board is bad?
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:28 AM   #14
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So another quick question. If the thermostat is not sending a signal then will it cause the blower fan to turn on like it is doing?
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:50 AM   #15
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On Carrier/Bryant, Payne, and other UTC owned brands. The blower will run for 90 seconds when power is turned on while the furnace has a heat call.

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