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Old 11-28-2008, 05:24 AM   #31
An old Tradesmen
 
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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Yes, I have buyer's remorse. Yes, I do blame an industry that, it seems to me, wants to keep this dirty little secret under the covers.

It seems it would be more of a problem with your choosen contractor, not having been open with you.
Not the 90% furnace its self.

The buyer NEEDS to be well informed, if that makes the HVAC people angry, so be it. I am not angry,

No 90% furnace increases a homes humidity by its function of removing roughly 75% of latent heats 14% of total fuel heat content from combustion gases.
That is the result of lower infiltration. Which is suppose to be taken into consideration by the salesman/installing contractor.

I am not here to pick fights, if someone posts a question, an I have something to contribute, and even if the HVAC people don't like it, I will try to help that poster make an intelligent decision. And a FULLY INFORMED decision.
Informing people that have homes that have less then average infiltration, that they should also have a fresh air intake installed would be informing them.

Blaming a product, for the lack of openess of an overzealous salesman, and or a poor installation is not informing people of the truth.
1000's of homes have 90% plus furnaces installed as replacements every year in place of older furnaces, and don't create this problem.

And there are many contractors that check the homes tightness for this possibility, and point out to the prospective customer. That they will need a fresh air intake installed for the home to prevent this from happening.

You are right to point out the possibility of it happening.

But, you are wrong in condemning the product. When it was the contractor that caused the issue.

So a poster asking a question about 90% furnaces, can't be "FULLY INFORMED" if you point out the flaws of your installation, as flaws of the furnace or industry. When your problems were caused by individuals. Not the industry itself.

Not all contractors are equal.

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Old 11-28-2008, 06:12 AM   #32
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Informing people that have homes that have less then average infiltration, that they should also have a fresh air intake installed would be informing them.

Blaming a product, for the lack of openess of an overzealous salesman, and or a poor installation is not informing people of the truth.
1000's of homes have 90% plus furnaces installed as replacements every year in place of older furnaces, and don't create this problem.

And there are many contractors that check the homes tightness for this possibility, and point out to the prospective customer. That they will need a fresh air intake installed for the home to prevent this from happening.

You are right to point out the possibility of it happening.

But, you are wrong in condemning the product. When it was the contractor that caused the issue.

So a poster asking a question about 90% furnaces, can't be "FULLY INFORMED" if you point out the flaws of your installation, as flaws of the furnace or industry. When your problems were caused by individuals. Not the industry itself.

Not all contractors are equal.
you know, beenthere, that is all I am asking, that the HVAC industry inform the consumer about the possibility of that happening. I am not blaming the product, even though I am convinced those units with closed combustion units will in most cases result in the same problem I had, even with a fresh air inlet in the house (which mine had since I had a conventional furnace previously).

I had NEVER stated there was a flaw in the installation by the tech, only that the industry, up to and including the sales people, never revealed, and continues to deny for the most part, anything similar what has happened in my case. And thank you, you are the first even admitting to any degree that there may be some problem here. Maybe when I got mine, the industry, maybe, was somewhat ignorant of this kind of issue, I would say high efficiency was "relatively new", but I won't accept that as an excuse after this much time. I am NOT blaming individuals. I do NOT blame the contractor. That was a long time ago. But now is now. I AM expecting the industry (from manufacturers, to contractors, to the salespeople) to inform the consumers of possibilities. Not deal with the problems after the fact.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:23 AM   #33
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


Unfortunately.
Many contractors avoid IAQ.
Many of those that do, tend to either not know, or ignore anything other then blowing hot or cold air in to a room.
Those that also are concerned with IAQ, will inform the customer of the humidty possibility. And many of them will test(blower door test) the homes infiltration rate. To know if and how much fresh air needs to be brought into the home.

Did they eliminate your air intake when they installed the 90.
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:23 AM   #34
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Informing people that have homes that have less then average infiltration, that they should also have a fresh air intake installed would be informing them.

Blaming a product, for the lack of openess of an overzealous salesman, and or a poor installation is not informing people of the truth.
1000's of homes have 90% plus furnaces installed as replacements every year in place of older furnaces, and don't create this problem.

And there are many contractors that check the homes tightness for this possibility, and point out to the prospective customer. That they will need a fresh air intake installed for the home to prevent this from happening.

You are right to point out the possibility of it happening.

But, you are wrong in condemning the product. When it was the contractor that caused the issue.

So a poster asking a question about 90% furnaces, can't be "FULLY INFORMED" if you point out the flaws of your installation, as flaws of the furnace or industry. When your problems were caused by individuals. Not the industry itself.

Not all contractors are equal.

Hey Beenthere do we keep "The Conspiracy" going or do we "throw off the cover"

MAN! You believe he was blaming ME for his problem. Good thing Roboteq wasn't here. That guy would be in therapy if he tangled with him.
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:10 PM   #35
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


LOL...

Robo is another story.
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:54 PM   #36
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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Hey Beenthere do we keep "The Conspiracy" going or do we "throw off the cover"

MAN! You believe he was blaming ME for his problem. Good thing Roboteq wasn't here. That guy would be in therapy if he tangled with him.
....keep it up, I'll have to "report" you......exactly where did I blame YOU......bet you don't have an answer for that along with the other questions. I'll give you a chance to answer the resulting efficiency questions once again if you can. Too bad we can't work to help the consumer instead of being so thin-skinned about a topic.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:44 PM   #37
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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....keep it up, I'll have to "report" you......exactly where did I blame YOU......bet you don't have an answer for that along with the other questions. I'll give you a chance to answer the resulting efficiency questions once again if you can. Too bad we can't work to help the consumer instead of being so thin-skinned about a topic.


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Old 12-02-2008, 06:38 AM   #38
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Payback going from 80% Furnace to 90%+


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