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Old 07-21-2010, 11:11 AM   #1
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** Opinions on a new GOODMAN AC unit **


Our AC unit has a leak in it. It's 10yrs old, so it uses R22. We're going to have the whole thing replaced (with an R410a system). I see that Goodman models seem to be the best in $$ amounts. Their warranty on compressor and parts are just as good, and in some cases better than the big names.

A lot of what I read on the web regarding Goodman quality seemed negative, BUT those posts were all pretty old (2004, 2005...) and there were several rebuttal post indicating that it's all got to do with the quality of the installation vs the brand.

Anyone out there have experience with Goodman?

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Old 07-21-2010, 02:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by rms8 View Post
Our AC unit has a leak in it. It's 10yrs old, so it uses R22. We're going to have the whole thing replaced (with an R410a system). I see that Goodman models seem to be the best in $$ amounts. Their warranty on compressor and parts are just as good, and in some cases better than the big names.

A lot of what I read on the web regarding Goodman quality seemed negative, BUT those posts were all pretty old (2004, 2005...) and there were several rebuttal post indicating that it's all got to do with the quality of the installation vs the brand.

Anyone out there have experience with Goodman?
I put in a 14SEER unit and did it mostly myself (Tech came out to braze the lines and turn on the system for $220). The unit is really quiet and does a great job. Seems like the Goodman 13SEER units use a cheaper compressor for new construction because cost is king, but then if you go to the 14SEER unit you get the same high quality parts you find in every other high end brand.

The outside sheetmetal on the outdoor unit is a little flimsier then I might like near the centers if little kids are going to go banging into it, but other than that the craftsmanship is great and I'm really happy with it.

I then also helped my buddy buy an outdoor unit and indoor coil online and he saved 2000 dollars off his install using the same guy I used for my install.

1. Buy from a online retailer (order over the phone as to not void Goodman Warranty)
2. Do most of the moving and pad leveling yourself
3. Hire the contractor to do final brazing, Nitrogen pressure, Vacuum, charging and setup.
4. Save 1000-2000 bucks.



-Jeff

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Old 07-21-2010, 03:56 PM   #3
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** Opinions on a new GOODMAN AC unit **


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Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
...Seems like the Goodman 13SEER units use a cheaper compressor for new construction because cost is king, but then if you go to the 14SEER unit you get the same high quality parts you find in every other high end brand.

-Jeff
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply!

According to Goodmans website, the 14SEER and 13SEER both use the same High-Efficiency Copeland Scroll Compressor. I thought the 14SEER was more $$ due primarily to the LIFETIME warranty on the compressor (vs 10yr on the 13SEER model) and the minor bump in efficiency.

I'm very glad to here you're pleased with a Goodman product!

Regarding your advice to order via the phone ....I did notice Goodman had a specific paragraph regarding internet purchases :

"Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman
on, any unit ordered over the Internet...."



I'd be a little worried Goodman could "weasel" out of the warranty if they discovered it was purchased via the web ???
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rms8 View Post
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply!

According to Goodmans website, the 14SEER and 13SEER both use the same High-Efficiency Copeland Scroll Compressor. I thought the 14SEER was more $$ due primarily to the LIFETIME warranty on the compressor (vs 10yr on the 13SEER model) and the minor bump in efficiency.

I'm very glad to here you're pleased with a Goodman product!

Regarding your advice to order via the phone ....I did notice Goodman had a specific paragraph regarding internet purchases :

"Neither warranty applies to, and no warranty is offered by Goodman
on, any unit ordered over the Internet...."



I'd be a little worried Goodman could "weasel" out of the warranty if they discovered it was purchased via the web ???

My buddy is an attorney and he said to order over the phone and your set.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:54 PM   #5
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** Opinions on a new GOODMAN AC unit **


I would not put one in my house unless it was going on the market soon.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
My buddy is an attorney and he said to order over the phone and your set.
Lawyers get paid to think different then the next lawyer.

So don't hold your breath, if its ordered from a company that sells over the internet. Even though you ordered by phone.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:28 PM   #7
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The lifetime compressor warranty is a gimmick. Its marketing.

They also gave lifetime warranties on R22 compressors. So now the people that have those R22 systems with lifetime compressor warranty. Will get to buy a whole new system anyway, if the compressor goes out 10 years from now. just they will get a small allowance if they get another Goodman system.
And they will have to get a new system if it goes out 10 years from now.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Lawyers get paid to think different then the next lawyer.

So don't hold your breath, if its ordered from a company that sells over the internet. Even though you ordered by phone.
The warranty is stated in clear English, if they wanted to exclude companies that also sell product over the internet they would have worded it differently. That is why warranty clauses are pages and pages long. Order over the phone and it would hold up in court.

If you order over the phone and you have a licensed contractor set it up, you are covered by the text of the warranty


-Jeff
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:59 PM   #9
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By the time you pay the lawyer to get your free part it will cost more than the part is worth. They count on people not suing them. Not worth taking time off work to go to small claims court. They have paid lawyers on staff, we don't.
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zootjeff View Post
The warranty is stated in clear English, if they wanted to exclude companies that also sell product over the internet they would have worded it differently. That is why warranty clauses are pages and pages long. Order over the phone and it would hold up in court.

If you order over the phone and you have a licensed contractor set it up, you are covered by the text of the warranty


-Jeff
I hope you never have a problem.

However. What you say it means, and what it means, may be 2 very different things.

I once had a lawyer tell me it doesn't matter what you sign, that counts.
Its what holds up in court that counts.

And a judge, won't always thing something means the same thing you think it means.

The chances that a judge will say. Good for you, for circumventing what the warranty says. Are slim.

But, if you have trouble, and they denies your warranty. You may spend as much on your lawyer as you want.

I'm sure Goodman has a lot of lawyers on retainer. So it won't be costing them nearly as much as it would you.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:34 PM   #11
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Most of the negative stuff you hear about Goodman was due to the bristol compressors inside. Goodman finally came around and started using copeland compressors...It was about time.

I'd have no problem putting a Goodman in my house now. I've installed three Goodman condensing units in the last month and they look as solid as anything else.

lloyd
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Old 07-25-2010, 10:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
I hope you never have a problem.

However. What you say it means, and what it means, may be 2 very different things.

I once had a lawyer tell me it doesn't matter what you sign, that counts.
Its what holds up in court that counts.

And a judge, won't always thing something means the same thing you think it means.

The chances that a judge will say. Good for you, for circumventing what the warranty says. Are slim.

But, if you have trouble, and they denies your warranty. You may spend as much on your lawyer as you want.

I'm sure Goodman has a lot of lawyers on retainer. So it won't be costing them nearly as much as it would you.
I just talked this over with my lawyer friend and and he said warranty cases always are "interpreted" in favor of the consumer. He says in this case the warranty text is very clear, "any unit ordered over the internet" is very different than "any unit ordered over the phone."

He says Goodman would have absolutely no legal recourse to attempt to defend a warranty clause that they don't state. There is no voiding of the warranty on a phone order by a distributor that also sells over the internet the way the warranty is currently worded.
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Old 07-25-2010, 11:53 PM   #13
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I'm sure he did say that.

And he makes money if you file a suit. So its in his best interest to interpret it that way.

If your warranty is denied. You get to find out first hand and tell us all about it.
Including. How long you had to wait for that warranty part. And how much you had to shell out, until your case was settled.

Maybe you should have asked him. How long does the average warranty case take to settle.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:25 AM   #14
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I'm sure he did say that.

And he makes money if you file a suit. So its in his best interest to interpret it that way.

If your warranty is denied. You get to find out first hand and tell us all about it.
Including. How long you had to wait for that warranty part. And how much you had to shell out, until your case was settled.

Maybe you should have asked him. How long does the average warranty case take to settle.
I don't think anyone is actually going to pay a lawyer to get an Hvac part. My point there is that Goodman and their lawyers on retainer will know the Law will be on your side if there is a problem so that will likely help the standard process in your favor.

My lawyer friend ordered his unit over the phone, I ordered mine over the internet. I technically don't have any warranty. Before I ordered my unit I called ACWholesalers they said that if you have a licensed contractor setup the system, that is good enough for Goodman, but on top of that, they tell me that if Goodman doesn't cover it, they will. So I'm not worried.

My point still stands if you order over the phone you're not going to void your warranty based on the way the warranty is written. Now filing a claim and proving you ordered over the phone could be an ordeal if they want to hassle you, but that's true with any company. The whole scare tactic to tell DIYers to not try this because they won't have a warranty doesn't appear to hold water to me.. Now I'm sure you disagree. This is just my opinion..
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:53 PM   #15
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Until your lawyer has a warranty failure. And Goodman covers it after they know it was ordered over the phone.

Don't tell people they are covered. Since your only guessing. And taking the word of someone that hasn't tested his opinion yet.

You might find that "intent" over rides the phone call loop your lawyer thinks he has.

Unless your willing to back up the warranty yourself to anyone that takes your advise as true.

How much money you got to back that statement up?

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