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Old 12-01-2011, 01:55 AM   #76
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


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Originally Posted by pete0403 View Post
VC,

Great thread...a very interesting read. Thanks for posting all the pictures and info.

I may have missed it but did you ever compare your $50 CO monitor to the commercial grade one with calibration gas? I'd be interested to see how accurate the cheapie is.
Hi Pete,

I finally ran my test with my 50ppm CO calibration gas with my commercial grade monitor vs. my $50 dollar unit and like yuri mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the $50 dollar unit must be made for catostrophic releases of CO because it did not alarm at all after about 1 minute of exposure with a flow rate of 1 liter/minute of 50PPM CO. The commercial unit responded within 3 to 5 seconds. Too bad the comercial unit is not priced so it could be affordable to the general public. The one I purchased was around $350. The cost of putting these in every room would be quite staggering for most folks including me. Since I'm in the gas detection business I got a discounted price and knew where to find a good affordable unit. Luckily its jut me and mama living in this big house and I'm running my little unit all night long in front of the register in my bedroom. So far I have not measured any levels on all nights except for the one night that it was raining heavily. I observed a peak of 6 ppm that occurred at some point during the night. That reading is fairly low and was not high enough to activate the audible alarm but I will look to see if it was real if I see that kind of reading again during the next strong rain. It's been a pretty dry fall so far. We usually get most rain during the winter and spring.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:30 AM   #77
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


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Sorry..got tripped up with your starting posting of the motor running 24/7 which sounded like a 2 speed. Just go with a single speed.
You can't expect much of a lifespan out of the exchanger of a furnace of this age so I'd just stick to the hsp it came with. Ground that new motor for sure. Remember to set up the belt tension loosely (at least 2" or more of bounce on the belt) because you are only pushing air and you might as well try to keep the lateral belt pressure low for those old fan bearings. If the pulley/ motor position doesn't seem to line up with the main blower pulley then remember that the base of your new motor is offset and can be removed & turned around to provide an alternative motor position.
oh and don't oil the shaft on this furnace as it's meant as a dry slide whereas oil can mix with dust and create a binding internal mess over time that is hard on bearings, shaft & motor.
Cheers
I went out and bought a 1/2 HP unit at Grainger yesterday. At first I picked up a 1/4 HP unit but it was so tiny in comparison to the 1/2 HP unit that I exchanged it for the 1/2 HP unit that is just about the same size as my existing 1/4HP motor.
This weekend, I plan to install the new fan and rewire the controller and motor. I need to draw a little wiring diagram to try understand what I'm rewiring because the way that it is currently wired is not cool and there are 115V splices with electrical tape, ungrounded not in a j-box. I ain't no electrician and even though it has been this way for probably longer than I have been alive, I know it's not right nor up to code. Anyways, in the first photo below, can some one please tell me what is the device on the left and what is its purpose. I think it maybe a solenoid that is activated by the thermopile voltage but i have a wiring diagram that makes me think its a burner motor whatever that is. I'm trying to figure out what the wiring is doing.
Also please let me know if the higher current load of the 1/2HP motor could be too much for controller mercury switches. The wire is 12 gauge so I know it is appropriately sized for the current at 115V of 7.2A but I just wanna make sure since the existing 1/4HP motor only draws 3.5A.

Thanks in advance, VC

Controller with Cover Off and Other Stuff


Controller Schematic


New Motor


Motor Specs



Wiring Mess


The 120Volt is on the left with the electrical tape on it.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:31 AM   #78
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


Take that 1/2 HP back, and get a 1/4 HP. A new 1/4 HP will be plenty, of motor for your old furnace. Its not like your trying to increase your air flow so you can blow air into your neighbors house. Are you?

The 1/2 HP motor won't move anymore air then a 1/4 HP at the same RPM. You would have to turn the motor pulley in to increase blower wheel speed.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:08 AM   #79
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


Go with a 1/4 hsp if that's what you had in there (as beenthere says).
Your just pushing air.
That channel lock on your 1/2 hsp shaft is also just another complexity over what you had.
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Old 12-01-2011, 12:07 PM   #80
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


if I wuz U I would leave that old fan control and limit with the mercury switches TOTALLY alone. as soon as you monkey with it you will have NO heat as looking at old millivolt wiring is enough to break it or cause a poor connection. trust me you don`t want to go there. get a .25 hp motor and hook it up with some better wiring and call it a day. the .5 will be heavier and cause vibration etc. motors are half the weight now then back when that unit came across the pond with Columbus. the hp is the same and that is all that matters.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:48 AM   #81
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if I wuz U I would leave that old fan control and limit with the mercury switches TOTALLY alone. as soon as you monkey with it you will have NO heat as looking at old millivolt wiring is enough to break it or cause a poor connection. trust me you don`t want to go there. get a .25 hp motor and hook it up with some better wiring and call it a day. the .5 will be heavier and cause vibration etc. motors are half the weight now then back when that unit came across the pond with Columbus. the hp is the same and that is all that matters.
Ok guys. I will take back that 1/2 HP motor. I've been following your advice so far and things have been working fine so I'm not gonna change now. I thought I would get your opinions before pulling the trigger.
I'm not gonna mess with the millivolt wiring but the power to the blower fan runs through the mercury switch on the controller and I will need to run a ground wire for the new fan. I was going to try to feed the new ground wire through the existing flexible conduit. Maybe I should just try to run an independent ground wire to the new fan.
It's starting to get cold here and everyone is gonna be mad a daddy If I got spend the Christmas money on a new heater.

PS can someone tell me what that piece of equipment on the left is. I'm talking about the unit with the four wires connected to it. I think it could be a solenoid.

Thx, VC

Last edited by vcheez; 12-02-2011 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:19 AM   #82
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Gas valve. The device to the right is the regulator.
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:28 AM   #83
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run an independent ground wire is the best way.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:06 PM   #84
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


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run an independent ground wire is the best way.
Thanks for the advice. I tied into the existing wiring and avoided messing with the existing wires and ran the independent ground wire as you suggested. I also cleaned up the 120VAC splice point and put it in a j-box. I'm still not too thrilled about using the existing wires because I fear that the insulation will come off and cause a short but at least since I have the ground wire the short will go to ground and pop the circuit breaker.

This new motor was humming and is actually vibrating a little more and is a little bit louder but it does not need a kick start to get going. I think it is rotating much faster because its blowing out a lot more air in the house.

I'm really glad you guys talked me out of putting in the 1/2HP motor. That would have been way over kill.
I think I'm done with this project for now so I don't think you'll be hearing from me on this one anymore unless that old funky controller fails. Thanks for all the good advice and direction. I can sleep a little better this winter.

New Motor With Independent Ground Wire


Close Up of Motor



New j-box
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:25 PM   #85
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


max'd 1725 RPMs on that new one if it is little noisey and the belt is flush up to the top of those sheaves on the motor 1/4 to 1/2 turn to drop the belt a little down into the sheave won't kill to much air and quiet it up try it to test the difference...nice job save a ton of $$$.any chance of getting an amprobe on the wires see wh the amps are with the panels up see how close you are to the tagged amps....tip...wire tie the wires and green ground off the motor base from vibration....have a good holiday
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:17 AM   #86
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


That picture looks like you have an aluminum split pulley on that motor. If so, swapping it out for a steel split pulley will also drop the vibration and sound level.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:29 PM   #87
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


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That picture looks like you have an aluminum split pulley on that motor. If so, swapping it out for a steel split pulley will also drop the vibration and sound level.
The guys at Grainger only brought out the aluminum one. The pulley on my old motor looks like steel. That motor was so old that i think it was built before aluminum was invented. ;-) I tried to pull it off of the shaft and it didn't budge. I didn't give it too much effort but I'll try again to tonight and then see if I can clean it up and reuse it. Why will a steel pulley be quieter?
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:42 PM   #88
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Is this old Furnace Able to be Serviced?


Side by side tests of new aluminum and steel split pulleys always come out in favour of the steel when it comes to lower voice and vibration. I have just assumed it was because the steel castings are truer than the aluminum. They do cost twice as much but I think an extra 10 bucks is worth the quality of life improvement.

Last edited by how; 12-06-2011 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:53 PM   #89
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old pully...WD40 it on the top and back shaft...take a adjustable wrench and slide it between the motor mouting bracket and the pully and burp it off or he largest screw driver around and do the same between the pully and the motor brearing hamer it down and it will move it out onto the shaft
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:12 AM   #90
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max'd 1725 RPMs on that new one if it is little noisey and the belt is flush up to the top of those sheaves on the motor 1/4 to 1/2 turn to drop the belt a little down into the sheave won't kill to much air and quiet it up try it to test the difference...nice job save a ton of $$$.any chance of getting an amprobe on the wires see wh the amps are with the panels up see how close you are to the tagged amps....tip...wire tie the wires and green ground off the motor base from vibration....have a good holiday
Hey biggles,

I borrowed my buddies amp clamp and it was pretty close to the listed current. The baseline that I measured with the clamp was around 0.17A so the reading of 5.097A was pretty close to the listed value of 4.8A. My buddy told me that the way that the amp clamp works with the fluke meter is that you have to set it on the ac mv setting.

I don't understand how spreading out the pulley and lowering the belt will make it spin slower and quieter. It seems like this would make it spin faster. I will try playing with the pulley this weekend and I will also take your advice and tie wrap the ground wire and the power cord off of the motor platform.

AmpClamp Reading
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