Oil Burner won't fire conststently

collosse · 11-24-2008, 08:53 AM

I use an oil fired Beckett AFG burner with dunkirk boiler on a hot water baseboard heating system for my home Installed new in 2002 replacing an old but very reliable New Yorker, we have had nothing but trouble with this unit, most recently: about 3 weeks ago we had a "furnace tech" come to do the anual cleaning, oil filter and nozzel change and adjust, we use the domestic coil for hot water all year. since cleaning ,the furnace is intermittent, meaning it might run correctly for 6-12 hrs or for 1-2 hrs and not restart, I can push the reset button on the primary control and it will restart and continue above cycle more or less, when it is off the green led on the primary ign cont (modR7184P-1064is blinking, it stays on when it is running and off when not running, when it starts from thermostst demand the purge blower starts and 5-10 seconds the pump starts and ignites normally, but I can't figure out what kicks it out, wether it kicks out at the end of cycle or the beginning I don't know , I going to give the furnace guy one more chance to fix this problem, we've had 5 different companies try to service this boiler, most of the people that come out have no idea about the solid state gear that is on the unit, we live in the country so my service choices are limited I turn to you all as a last resort before throwing the whole darn thing out and starting over!!!!

**beenthere** · 11-24-2008, 09:50 AM

Too much combustion air.
Incorrect setting of ignitors.
Misalignment of the cad cell.
Weak cadcell.
Weak ignition transformer.
Too much over fire draft.
Low oil pressure.
Under fired nozzle.
Air leak on a 2 pipe oil line system.

Just a few quick things.

Did any of the companies leave the results of their combustion tests.

collosse · 11-25-2008, 08:01 AM

thanks so much for the reply, after much head scratching he replaced the CAD cell and dumped some aditive into the oil tank to disperse any water problem, tightened oil filter( it wasn't loose) and checked combustion and voltage output from ignition trans, all ok furnace hasn't missed a beat since 1PM yesterday, maybe it's fixed,,,if it goes out again I'll give him your list to check, thanks so much for the advice, (do you make house calls?? just kiddin!! collosse

collosse · 12-03-2008, 08:47 AM

Good mornin BENTHERE it's Collosse again with the oil burner that wont fire consistently, the cad cell was changed, minor adjustments were made and the furnace worked for about two weeks, the oil guy said he thought if he came back I should think of having a Tiger Loop installed, my oil lines are tight (installed in 2002) and I'm getting suction pressure on the guage on my oil filter, we didn't have problems till the furnace was cleaned!! they are wanting $5-600 for the loop install, since the cad cell temporarily fixed the problem isn't it more likely the ignition module could be weak? we had the ignition trans replaced last year, I don't mind paying to fix the problem but randomly replacing the components till the problem is founddoes not give me confidence in my repair man!!!

**beenthere** · 12-03-2008, 05:24 PM

If your vaccum guage isn't dropping to zero, its doubtfull a Tiger Loop would help.
Check your guage in between cycles, is it at zero, or holding a vacuum.
If its losing vacuum, then there is a good chance, its an air leak at the oil filter, from it being disturbed from changing the filter.

It could be the transformer. But its very very rare that an ignition transformer goes bad in a year.

Sounds like a misadjustment of the electrodes, or combustion air.

If he keeps on insisting on a Tiger Loop.
Ask him why its losing vacuum now.
And also ask if he is giving a WRITTEN money back guarranty if it doesn't solve the problem.

That should make him check a little better instead of just guessing with your money.

#CARRIERMAN · 12-03-2008, 05:38 PM

Hi collosse

Don't give up you have one of the best boilers on the market and possibly in the world. When the boiler was serviced did they tear the boiler down and vacuum the ash buildup out of the burn chamber. If not this will actually cause a dust cloud and inhibit the infrared signal that the cad cell is looking for. The other problem could be missaligned or improperly ajusted ignitor electrodes. On a Beckett, the electrodes are supposed to protrude 3/8" in front of the nozzle with a nickles width between them, and yes I mean the coin. I couldn't tell for sure from the post how far the servicing company has gone into it. But these are some pointers.

Good luck
Rusty

Ron6519 · 12-03-2008, 05:42 PM

Carrierman.
Are the electrode placements the same for all the Beckett burners or was the setting mentioned just for the AFG?
Ron

**beenthere** · 12-03-2008, 06:04 PM

3/8" is too far out for most Beckett burners.
Unless they are using a 45° angle nozzle.
Which is only used with 2 retention heads.
The L, and I forget the other head.

On an F O head, its 5/16" above nozzle center, and even to 1/16" in front of nozzle, and 1/8 to 3/16" gap.
An F6 head can be 7/16" above nozzle center, and 1/8" infront of nozzle, and 1/8 to 3/16" gap.

Beckett is switching to 5/16" above nozzle for most of the retention heads now.

Get the electrodes out in front of the oil spray, and you get a carbon build up.

collosse · 12-04-2008, 08:14 AM

Good mornin all, this mornin I blissfully sit in front of my computer in HEATED COMFORT!!! Thanks to Carrierman,,Ron6519 and especially Beenthere for your advice!! Let me take you thru yesterday , 1am reset boiler,,4am reset boiler 6am reset boiler and I don't know how many times my wife did the same,,,called the service people at 7:30am talked to receptionist she said last guy that was out said return visit needed a tiger loop ( $650.00 installed) (like that needs to happen this close to Christmas!!) she also said she was sending 2 technicians out to diagnose problem , no guarantees if the loop didn't fix it we (meaning my wallet would go from there) the guys showed up and one had done work on the homes original furnace( an old New Yorker) with reliable success but we lost his name and he changed companies,,I kind of set around the corner and listened to them talk and as luck (or DEVINE intervention) would have it the furnace shut down , the older guy went right to the problem, IMPROPER IGNITER ADJUSTMENT!!!!! the younger guy at that point said he didn't think the adjustment was all that inportant!! after a light dressing down from the older guy about the importance ,they put the furnace back together and it has never run more smoothly or quietly, I've never used the blogs or chatrooms much but you guys made me a believer, many thanks for the advice GOD BLESS you all and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS , collosse,, oh buy the way I still don't have a Tiger Loop!

Ron6519 · 12-04-2008, 08:41 AM

Glad to hear you're up and running. I had a similiar thread about a hot water boiler tripping at lower set thermostat settings(vacation house-55 degrees). Monte, the service tech, came by yesterday after another, "no heat" call and readjusted the electrode settings and something on the side of the gun. This morning, the boiler hadn't tripped and the temps were at the set 55 degrees.
This is a customers house in upstate NY.
This is also the primary reason I converted to natural gas. The lack of consistant competentcy of service people in the oil industry.
Ron

hofffff · 12-17-2009, 03:42 PM

I had the same problem on my oil boiler. First they replaced the oil pump. When that didnt work, they said i was getting air in the line. They installed a tiger loop and it still doesnt work. I will try some of the solutions suggested and see if anything works.

collosse · 12-18-2009, 10:26 AM

hofff:
thanks for your reply, my problem occured last year, during the coldest time of the year for us (Virginia), we finally got a good boiler man and the fix was rediculously simple, the oil in my tanks and line was "gelling" and causing the nozzle to spray intermittently causing the cad cell to tell the boiler to cut off!!! My simple fix came from NAPA (car parts place) in the form of anti gelling deisel fuel additive, one bottle will treat 500 gal!
poured it right into the tanks,,the furnace has not missed a beat since!!
cost about $12
HOPE THIS HELPS,,,,,,,,,,,,MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
PS we're expecting lots of snow in the next few days, guess who visited NAPA yesterday!!!

bobmanfo · 02-04-2010, 04:42 PM

A fine tune and adjustment stopped my interruptions. Boiler tech new right away, as soon as he opened it up. A poor air to fuel mixture, and igniter adjustment.
Says it needs to be done yearly.

AndrewF · 02-04-2010, 05:13 PM

I will add that not having the electrodes adjusted properly will lead to unreliable starting.

My new to me boiler wouldnt start consistently, I pulled it out, followed the manufacture instructions for setting the measurements of the electrodes for the type of nozzle I had, not a problem since.

So yes, it does matter if they are cleaned and adjusted properly.

11-24-2008, 08:53 AM	#1
collosse Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10	Oil Burner won't fire conststently I use an oil fired Beckett AFG burner with dunkirk boiler on a hot water baseboard heating system for my home Installed new in 2002 replacing an old but very reliable New Yorker, we have had nothing but trouble with this unit, most recently: about 3 weeks ago we had a "furnace tech" come to do the anual cleaning, oil filter and nozzel change and adjust, we use the domestic coil for hot water all year. since cleaning ,the furnace is intermittent, meaning it might run correctly for 6-12 hrs or for 1-2 hrs and not restart, I can push the reset button on the primary control and it will restart and continue above cycle more or less, when it is off the green led on the primary ign cont (modR7184P-1064is blinking, it stays on when it is running and off when not running, when it starts from thermostst demand the purge blower starts and 5-10 seconds the pump starts and ignites normally, but I can't figure out what kicks it out, wether it kicks out at the end of cycle or the beginning I don't know , I going to give the furnace guy one more chance to fix this problem, we've had 5 different companies try to service this boiler, most of the people that come out have no idea about the solid state gear that is on the unit, we live in the country so my service choices are limited I turn to you all as a last resort before throwing the whole darn thing out and starting over!!!! Last edited by collosse; 11-24-2008 at 08:58 AM.

11-24-2008, 09:50 AM	#2
beenthere An old Tradesmen Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 19,029	Oil Burner won't fire conststently Too much combustion air. Incorrect setting of ignitors. Misalignment of the cad cell. Weak cadcell. Weak ignition transformer. Too much over fire draft. Low oil pressure. Under fired nozzle. Air leak on a 2 pipe oil line system. Just a few quick things. Did any of the companies leave the results of their combustion tests.

11-25-2008, 08:01 AM	#3
collosse Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10	Oil Burner won't fire conststently thanks so much for the reply, after much head scratching he replaced the CAD cell and dumped some aditive into the oil tank to disperse any water problem, tightened oil filter( it wasn't loose) and checked combustion and voltage output from ignition trans, all ok furnace hasn't missed a beat since 1PM yesterday, maybe it's fixed,,,if it goes out again I'll give him your list to check, thanks so much for the advice, (do you make house calls?? just kiddin!! collosse

12-03-2008, 08:47 AM	#4
collosse Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10	Oil Burner won't fire conststently Good mornin BENTHERE it's Collosse again with the oil burner that wont fire consistently, the cad cell was changed, minor adjustments were made and the furnace worked for about two weeks, the oil guy said he thought if he came back I should think of having a Tiger Loop installed, my oil lines are tight (installed in 2002) and I'm getting suction pressure on the guage on my oil filter, we didn't have problems till the furnace was cleaned!! they are wanting $5-600 for the loop install, since the cad cell temporarily fixed the problem isn't it more likely the ignition module could be weak? we had the ignition trans replaced last year, I don't mind paying to fix the problem but randomly replacing the components till the problem is founddoes not give me confidence in my repair man!!!

12-03-2008, 05:24 PM	#5
beenthere An old Tradesmen Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PA Posts: 19,029	Oil Burner won't fire conststently If your vaccum guage isn't dropping to zero, its doubtfull a Tiger Loop would help. Check your guage in between cycles, is it at zero, or holding a vacuum. If its losing vacuum, then there is a good chance, its an air leak at the oil filter, from it being disturbed from changing the filter. It could be the transformer. But its very very rare that an ignition transformer goes bad in a year. Sounds like a misadjustment of the electrodes, or combustion air. If he keeps on insisting on a Tiger Loop. Ask him why its losing vacuum now. And also ask if he is giving a WRITTEN money back guarranty if it doesn't solve the problem. That should make him check a little better instead of just guessing with your money.

Oil Burner won't fire conststently