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Old 08-04-2012, 11:02 PM   #31
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no cold air, no solid airflow from AC


Go with the highest seer rating you can afford. 18 years isn't that far away.

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Old 08-04-2012, 11:30 PM   #32
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no cold air, no solid airflow from AC


As far as refrigerant lines I would suspect most would say clean them with a product made to do the job. I have alway replaced refrigerant lines when at all possible. I even did this when the new refrigerant was not being used (years ago). But then I always include in proposals new disconnect, outside pads, thermostats, and even oil lines(when talking fuel oil systems) when ever possible. This is not always what others do. This does not mean that I know best it is just what I do. These things don't cost all that much but there life expectancy would be similar to the units.

On second floor homes with units in the attic a lot of times the lines can be ran on the exterior in vinal channel made for the job. This looks pretty good in my opinion. In the past before this product was around gutter down spout was used and this would run into the homes sofit. Not all home will these work on. Sometimes the lineset just has to be re used. I take this stand on it, if it can be changed change the lineset.

As far a SEER rating. I like the most seer which I can keep the outside unit single speed. that in most cases is 15.5 SEER. For extreemly large home sometimes more SEER is better. Just rember this is just the cooling ratings rather a/c only (like you have) or heat pump. Most cooling seasons are only 3 to 5 months and it is hard to recoup the initial cost of ultra SEER rated units. There is also much more to fail with multi speed outdoor units that would achive ultra SEER ratings.

Make sure which ever contractor you choose gives you a written proposal that states what you are getting. This should have model #'s of all equipment, SEER ratings, Refrigerant being used, and any extras (refrigerant lines or line cleaning, disconnects, equipment pad, overflow pans, tstats ect..). this way you can compair not just based on price.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:31 AM   #33
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no cold air, no solid airflow from AC


Regarding replace or flush lineset: Either way will work, but of course if you are able to do so then a new lineset is best. If you reuse the lineset, be sure the old one is large enough to handle the new system and make sure the contractor flushes it with an approved method. Simply purging with nitrogen won't work - you must use something that will remove the oil from those lines.

Many homeowners don't like the exposed linesets and covers, so be sure you know what you're in for if you go that route.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:02 AM   #34
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no cold air, no solid airflow from AC


Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmcd9999 View Post
Regarding replace or flush lineset: Either way will work, but of course if you are able to do so then a new lineset is best. If you reuse the lineset, be sure the old one is large enough to handle the new system and make sure the contractor flushes it with an approved method. Simply purging with nitrogen won't work - you must use something that will remove the oil from those lines.

Many homeowners don't like the exposed linesets and covers, so be sure you know what you're in for if you go that route.
A chemical flush is not required. And some manufacturers tell you not to use a chemical flush.

Mineral oil and POE will mix. Mineral won't mix with R410A though, and that is why they want 4% or less mineral oil in the system when you switch to R410A.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:47 AM   #35
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First I've heard of that - all the tech reps I've spoken with are adamant about flushing and removing as much mineral oil as possible. Good to know, however.

For my money, I'll keep flushing as we've been doing when we can't replace linesets. Just makes sense to me - the more mineral oil I remove the better off I'll be.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:51 AM   #36
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Off the top of my head, Trane says no flush since no manufacturer of any flush has proven to them that all of the flush comes out.

Some tech reps interject their own personal feelings. The Lennox rep for here does.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:54 AM   #37
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Good to know. I'm gonna hammer my Trane TM on this when I see him next Thursday.
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Old 08-05-2012, 05:59 AM   #38
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Ask him to actually talk to the "engineers".
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:27 AM   #39
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no cold air, no solid airflow from AC


You did pique my curiosity, so I went online to see what I could find. I turned up this Trane retrofit guide:

http://www.gwd-ac.com/MEG/LinkClick....Ps%3D&tabid=96

When discussing the issue of flush, here's what the guide has to say:

Quote:
There are multiple HVAC flush agents available to our industry. Prior to using any flush agent, please read
and understand all directions printed by the manufacturer as there may be differences from one manufacturer
to another. Flush agents should be used for line cleaning only. Do not flush an indoor or outdoor coil
for re-use with Trane HVAC split systems. The coil may trap residue and promote premature compressor
and flow control failure. If using a flush product in lines where POE oil will be the system lubricant, such as
in R410A systems, it is recommended to use an HFC flush product. In all cases, the system must be evacuated
below 300 microns in order to remove residual flush fluid that may contain unstable chlorinated
hydrocarbon solvent. At compressor discharge temperatures this solvent will breakdown and form strong
acids.
Looks be something of a mixed bag - they don't actually state that the use of flush is prohibited, and in fact give some guidance as to the use and such. However, they also don't state that it IS approved, and in fact in earlier parts of the document they mention purging the lineset with nitrogen, and checking the collected oil for acids. But in another section they then again state that flush may be used:
Quote:
If acid test returns positive and the lines are inaccessible or if there is a concern of debris in
the lines, a flush agent may be used.
Of course this is the "official" Trane literature. The engineers may have an entirely different view of this, and that's what I'd like to find out.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:37 AM   #40
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And you see how they want a 300 micron vacuum if you use a flush.

They may be changing their stance, but I bet the engineers aren't happy with the bean counters pushing to allow it for increased sales.

Just my guess that its the bean counters doings.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:41 PM   #41
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Reasons like these (never seems to be definate answers) make me glad I run new lineset when ever at all possible

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